Worked the Plate without an Indicator today.

[JRutledge]

I did not say there was anything wrong with it. I just wonder why we are so obsessed of someone uses an indicator or not. Someone that would come to this board that is either new or not a baseball umpire would think that an indicator is the reason we can do our jobs or not. If you want to talk about it that is your right and it is Nick's right to tell the story. I just do not see why it really matters one way or the other if someone makes a personal decision. Now are we going to debate what type of cup we use?

Peace

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Now are we going to debate what type of cup we use?

BANANA !

And I ain't giving that up !

[briancurtin]

a thread about a poster's experience of trying something that has been talked about for years, gets absolutely **** on.

i wonder what would happen if umpires were to go on strike and there was to be a discussion on working those games.

[Dave Davies]

Comment by the Rut.

"What is the big freakin deal? If you want to use an indicator use the indicator. If you do not want to use the indicator, do not use the indicator. This to me is about as silly an issue as if you wear a mask or not. I do not see how this is going to help anyone or hurt anyone to call balls and strikes which ultimately is what we are out there to do."

Well, Rut, here's why.

I'm in Irvine, Ca this past weekend evaluating the Umpires working the UC Irvine Anteaters and the Cal State Fullerton Titans, a D1 game. Three Umpire crew. To work these games, the Umpires have to be pretty good.

Between the three of them (all 3 games) there wasn't an indicator to be found. At that level of Umpiring, carrying an indicator is something you just don't use, in Southern California, anyway.

If you aspire to the highest levels of Umpiring, get used to the idea of not using an indicator. If you are content with working the level of ball that you are currently working, then you would be correct; using, or not using an indicator is just a matter of choice.

Now, reading your past posts, I perceive, correctly or not, that you have a horse**** attitude. You wouldn't be welcome in my organization if you insisted on using an indicator and I insisted that you could NOT use an indicator.

It's a universal thing, Rut, not a local league thing.

Dave
****

[Dave Davies]

Damn, I just read my reply.

I just wrote horse****. Instread of getting booted off the board for 3 months, the word "****" just got replaced by some funny snowflakes.

This politically correct **** has sure come a long way.

****in' great!!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dave Davies

Comment by the Rut.

"What is the big freakin deal? If you want to use an indicator use the indicator. If you do not want to use the indicator, do not use the indicator. This to me is about as silly an issue as if you wear a mask or not. I do not see how this is going to help anyone or hurt anyone to call balls and strikes which ultimately is what we are out there to do."

Well, Rut, here's why.

I'm in Irvine, Ca this past weekend evaluating the Umpires working the UC Irvine Anteaters and the Cal State Fullerton Titans, a D1 game. Three Umpire crew. To work these games, the Umpires have to be pretty good.

Between the three of them (all 3 games) there wasn't an indicator to be found. At that level of Umpiring, carrying an indicator is something you just don't use, in Southern California, anyway.

If you aspire to the highest levels of Umpiring, get used to the idea of not using an indicator. If you are content with working the level of ball that you are currently working, then you would be correct; using, or not using an indicator is just a matter of choice.

Now, reading your past posts, I perceive, correctly or not, that you have a horse**** attitude. You wouldn't be welcome in my organization if you insisted on using an indicator and I insisted that you could NOT use an indicator.

It's a universal thing, Rut, not a local league thing.

Dave
****

It's not a universal thing, Dave, if you're talking about the plate umpire. Everywhere I've lived, HE'S carried an indicator.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dave Davies

It's a universal thing, Rut, not a local league thing.

Dave
****

Dave, I know a guy who is on a D1 staff (not just someone that works a couple of non-conference games), who has worked some Minor League ball in his career and he uses an indicator when he works the plate.

I even was at a tournament that this particular D1 umpire was working. It is a tournament that many umpires work late in the summer and is a bonding event for many in the association. Well I was not working at this particular time when this D1 umpire had a foul ball hit him in the hand and broke his indicator. Well because I was watching the game he asked me to go get him a replacement and I had to run back to the parking lot, go in my car and get him one of my indicators. This umpire is also a two time state final umpire and is one of the best umpires I have ever worked with. I was kind of on the fence of this issue until I saw that. Also when I work with other college umpires and guys that have history working Minor League ball, they all use indicators as well behind the plate. So I am not sure the "universal" description you gave applies to the people I have come in contact with that work D1 ball.

Peace

[BigUmp56]

Jeff:

I'll do my best to answer your question now that I understand what your question is. Correct me if I'm wrong but your real question was, "Why are people so obsessed with whether or not others use and indicator?"

First, I don't think anyone here is obsessed with this. The truth is I fail to understand why you're confusing healthy discussion with obsession. That's all it is, Jeff, good discussion. Maybe it's a little remedial to some, but it's a topic of interest to many others.

To me, this is no less fruitful than discussions in umpiring circles about how important it is to look professional in ones appearance on the diamond. Would you also say it's an obsession for good umpires to insist on shining their plate shoes or creasing their hats? Doing these things certainly doesn't make them a better balls and strikes umpire, but it serves a purpose.

The worth of the conversation became apparent when DD chimed in and mentioned how he evaluates umpires at the Div 1 level in this regard. After hearing from both Dave and you on the subject I'm able to draw from two completely different perspectives on this before I decide to call some games without one. Though I have to say with Tony, Nick, and Dave all being proponents of going without one, I'm leaning that way.


Tim.

[LMan]

So you are saying that NO MLB umpires use an indicator? I find that almost impossible to believe.

I have never seen/heard anything from experienced umpires, or at camps, or whatever, that losing the indicator was/is expected by a certain level....only that what's important is not to get 'lost' in it and lose focus on the game.

If one aspires to work without one, that's great...I can see how it might more finely-tune your focus and of course be one fewer item to break/lose/etc. But that fact alone doesn't make one a better or worse PU.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by LMan

So you are saying that NO MLB umpires use an indicator? I find that almost impossible to believe.

In fact, I have been told exactly that by a Texas League umpire (who, by the way, said that he did not know of any of his brethren that used one either.)

I'm not saying this to imply one is better than the other or that you can't advance if you need the indicapacifier. But I do maintain that most of you that THINK you need one, probably don't. And I do maintain that I have become more focused since dropping the use of one except when required (and I find that when I AM required, it is a distraction, not an aid.) But ... to each their own. The only thing that bugs me is when someone insists that you need this tool because it's a tool... yet have never REALLY tried it the other way, and thus do not know from whence they speak.