Worked the Plate without an Indicator today.

[JRutledge]

Tim,

If you just do a search of this website you will find that many of our discussions are surrounded about the use or none use of an indicator. I am going to assume that Nick posted this story because of the constant pressure of many here to "prove something" by not using an indicator. After he tells this story the very first comment in response was and I quote, “Get rid of that crutch.” Now how is an indicator a crutch? I have worked with a lot of umpires and I never thought their strike zone was any better with or without an indicator. Now tell me Tim in your knowledgeable way, “What is the big deal?” I found Nick’s story interesting, but why are we so obsessed over whether someone uses a tool that helps them in a small way? I have worked with a lot of umpires that will not move from behind home plate, so why should any of us care if an umpire does all the proper mechanics but uses an indicator? If you look just at the bottom of this thread, you will see just a sample of the debates or threads dedicated to indicators. Now if that is what you want to discuss it is your right to do so. I just want to know why we are so concerned with something that is after all a personal decision and is not going to affect the way you umpire. Tim, I got ripped one time because I used a certain kind of indicator over another type of indicator. Nothing was said about my uniform or the way I looked, but someone saw a picture and commented on my indicator. Why are so many people obsessed with a piece of plastic?

Now are you going to answer the question or are you going to debate why I ask the question and how offended you were by the question? You know if you were so offended you could have just passed the thread up. I do not recall I asked you anything directly Tim at the beginning of this thread.

If it makes you feel any better, he is another listed at the bottom called "Ditched my indicator for good." I actually know the person who started the thread. We have worked together as well.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Jeff,

Are you blind, or what? Did you not see that PWL referred to Tim as obsessive-compulsive and recommended Dr. Phil? Of course you did, and you thought that insult was funny. But as soon as Tim cracked back on your boy PW, all of a sudden you find it to be hostile! Very hypocritical of you.

On the subject of indicators, I would be more impressed with posts that talked about working the plate without a mask. That would be worth discussing.

Steve,

Do you really take yourself that seriously? Hypocritical? Dude, tone it down a couple of notches. It will be OK.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

I should have realized you would try to turn this into being about me. Very predictable. How could I have missed it?

[umpduck11]

Ok,Ok......group hug and decaf all around.

[briancurtin]

...and maybe some tranquilizers.

[PWL]

This thread brought to you by the fine folks at Pfizer!!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I should have realized you would try to turn this into being about me. Very predictable. How could I have missed it?

Steve,

What is predictable about your responses on this thread have been all about me and not the topic at hand. You cannot come after me about why I say the things I do then get upset when it becomes about me.

Peace

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Good Lord I get tired of seeing so many threads destroyed and ran off subject again, and again, and again, by Jeff Rutledge. And you say people get along with you??? I can't think of anyone that gets along with you on this forum. You continually make negative posts and then sign them all with "Peace."

You continually make up some question that serves no purpose, and that you really aren't expecting anyone to answer, and then you harp on it again and again and again. Until someone gives up and says, OKAY! I'll answer your question, even though the appropriateness of your question to the thread, is trivial, if not nonexistent.

Jeff, if you don't care about who uses a counter and who doesn't then don't read the thread. Somebody did care. Somebody posted. Some people replied. Why can't you just leave it at that?

It was important to Nick. And I felt it was important that I encourage him.

Do you ever think about how much of your life you have wasted inciting these childish little tirades in which you continually seem so embroiled? I know I think about it for myself every time I open a thread and it's got your name in it. Well here's another thread with a half page of content and 3 pages of impertinent, improper English and frustrated bickering.

To all you others, PLEASE DON'T FEED THE BEARS.

Good night.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I almost forgot.

Please Jeff, wear your mask. Use a counter or don't; that's okay. But please wear your mask.

[Dave Davies]

Comment by the Rut.

"What is the big freakin deal? If you want to use an indicator use the indicator. If you do not want to use the indicator, do not use the indicator. This to me is about as silly an issue as if you wear a mask or not. I do not see how this is going to help anyone or hurt anyone to call balls and strikes which ultimately is what we are out there to do."

Well, Rut, here's why.

I'm in Irvine, Ca this past weekend evaluating the Umpires working the UC Irvine Anteaters and the Cal State Fullerton Titans, a D1 game. Three Umpire crew. To work these games, the Umpires have to be pretty good.

Between the three of them (all 3 games) there wasn't an indicator to be found. At that level of Umpiring, carrying an indicator is something you just don't use, in Southern California, anyway.

If you aspire to the highest levels of Umpiring, get used to the idea of not using an indicator. If you are content with working the level of ball that you are currently working, then you would be correct; using, or not using an indicator is just a matter of choice.

Now, reading your past posts, I perceive, correctly or not, that you have a horse**** attitude. You wouldn't be welcome in my organization if you insisted on using an indicator and I insisted that you could NOT use an indicator.

It's a universal thing, Rut, not a local league thing.

Dave
****

[Dave Davies]

Damn, I just read my reply.

I just wrote horse****. Instread of getting booted off the board for 3 months, the word "****" just got replaced by some funny snowflakes.

This politically correct **** has sure come a long way.

****in' great!!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dave Davies

Comment by the Rut.

"What is the big freakin deal? If you want to use an indicator use the indicator. If you do not want to use the indicator, do not use the indicator. This to me is about as silly an issue as if you wear a mask or not. I do not see how this is going to help anyone or hurt anyone to call balls and strikes which ultimately is what we are out there to do."

Well, Rut, here's why.

I'm in Irvine, Ca this past weekend evaluating the Umpires working the UC Irvine Anteaters and the Cal State Fullerton Titans, a D1 game. Three Umpire crew. To work these games, the Umpires have to be pretty good.

Between the three of them (all 3 games) there wasn't an indicator to be found. At that level of Umpiring, carrying an indicator is something you just don't use, in Southern California, anyway.

If you aspire to the highest levels of Umpiring, get used to the idea of not using an indicator. If you are content with working the level of ball that you are currently working, then you would be correct; using, or not using an indicator is just a matter of choice.

Now, reading your past posts, I perceive, correctly or not, that you have a horse**** attitude. You wouldn't be welcome in my organization if you insisted on using an indicator and I insisted that you could NOT use an indicator.

It's a universal thing, Rut, not a local league thing.

Dave
****

It's not a universal thing, Dave, if you're talking about the plate umpire. Everywhere I've lived, HE'S carried an indicator.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Good Lord I get tired of seeing so many threads destroyed and ran off subject again, and again, and again, by Jeff Rutledge. And you say people get along with you??? I can't think of anyone that gets along with you on this forum. You continually make negative posts and then sign them all with "Peace."

You are probably one of these old guys that think Frank Sinatra was the man back in the day and that they do not play baseball as they used to in the pre-TV era. There are people in this world that say and use language in ways that you are not familiar with. All I will say is that when I speak to people that are either in the same generation as I am or have a similar cultural background as I do; they say "Peace" as to say "good bye" or "see you later." I know you think that the term is about hippies and free love, but it is not.

Asking a question is a "negative" thing? I did not realize that asking a question was negative? I just want to know why as umpires we are so obsessed with the use of something that many fell is a personal tool or something that makes them comfortable. Next thing you are going to tell me we should get into a serious debate over what kind of undergarments we wear prove what kind of umpire you are.

You continually make up some question that serves no purpose, and that you really aren't expecting anyone to answer, and then you harp on it again and again and again. Until someone gives up and says, OKAY! I'll answer your question, even though the appropriateness of your question to the thread, is trivial, if not nonexistent.

How was the question inappropriate? I think you need to look up what the world "inappropriate" actually means. Maybe you need to look up what the word hyperbole means.

Jeff, if you don't care about who uses a counter and who doesn't then don't read the thread. Somebody did care. Somebody posted. Some people replied. Why can't you just leave it at that?

Of course somebody cares about this issue. Maybe this is why we have several topics dedicated to this topic alone. I am not asking this question for you or me. I am asking this question for every newer umpire or not as accomplished umpire that feels they need to do something that is essentually a personal issue and a personal tool.

It was important to Nick. And I felt it was important that I encourage him.

Now my question was important to me, so what is the difference?

Do you ever think about how much of your life you have wasted inciting these childish little tirades in which you continually seem so embroiled? I know I think about it for myself every time I open a thread and it's got your name in it. Well here's another thread with a half page of content and 3 pages of impertinent, improper English and frustrated bickering.

We obviously do not look at life the same way so if you feel I have wasted time then I guess I have wasted time. Actually I do not know if I would say anything that you would agree with, so what is the point?

To all you others, PLEASE DON'T FEED THE BEARS.

Good night.

You obviously need to get some sleep.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dave Davies

It's a universal thing, Rut, not a local league thing.

Dave
****

Dave, I know a guy who is on a D1 staff (not just someone that works a couple of non-conference games), who has worked some Minor League ball in his career and he uses an indicator when he works the plate.

I even was at a tournament that this particular D1 umpire was working. It is a tournament that many umpires work late in the summer and is a bonding event for many in the association. Well I was not working at this particular time when this D1 umpire had a foul ball hit him in the hand and broke his indicator. Well because I was watching the game he asked me to go get him a replacement and I had to run back to the parking lot, go in my car and get him one of my indicators. This umpire is also a two time state final umpire and is one of the best umpires I have ever worked with. I was kind of on the fence of this issue until I saw that. Also when I work with other college umpires and guys that have history working Minor League ball, they all use indicators as well behind the plate. So I am not sure the "universal" description you gave applies to the people I have come in contact with that work D1 ball.

Peace

[BigUmp56]

Jeff:

I'll do my best to answer your question now that I understand what your question is. Correct me if I'm wrong but your real question was, "Why are people so obsessed with whether or not others use and indicator?"

First, I don't think anyone here is obsessed with this. The truth is I fail to understand why you're confusing healthy discussion with obsession. That's all it is, Jeff, good discussion. Maybe it's a little remedial to some, but it's a topic of interest to many others.

To me, this is no less fruitful than discussions in umpiring circles about how important it is to look professional in ones appearance on the diamond. Would you also say it's an obsession for good umpires to insist on shining their plate shoes or creasing their hats? Doing these things certainly doesn't make them a better balls and strikes umpire, but it serves a purpose.

The worth of the conversation became apparent when DD chimed in and mentioned how he evaluates umpires at the Div 1 level in this regard. After hearing from both Dave and you on the subject I'm able to draw from two completely different perspectives on this before I decide to call some games without one. Though I have to say with Tony, Nick, and Dave all being proponents of going without one, I'm leaning that way.


Tim.