Recent Game - 1st Ejection of the year

[Durham]

I had a Juco game yesterday and my first ejection of the year. Here is how it went.

In the top of the 2nd, the third out was made on a non-routine play at first base where the first baseman possibly had his foot off the base. My partner called the runner out and the entire dugout erupted. I warned the dugout and told them that they could not do that. At this point, assistant coach X attempted to explain to me that his players did nothing wrong. I warned him again and told him that it was not his job, nor his players’ job to argue with the umpires; it is his head coach’s job. Then assistant coach Y attempted to argue the point with me by stating, “The game is not about you!” I then warned him by replying, “And it is not about you or your players arguing with me either.”

In the top of the 3rd there was a check swing appeal that I asked my partner for help on that he called a strike. The dugout again protested and I warned them that they could not argue balls and strikes.

In the top of the 4th there was a close double play call at first base that went against the team making all the noise. The next batter grounded out on a routine play and was out by several steps. An unidentified member in the dugout yelled in a voice that was audible to the stands, “At least you ****ing got one right.” At this point my partner walked towards the dugout and asked who said that. No one responded and assistant coach Z proceeded to walk out of the dugout to argue that “In 30 years I have never seen!” I stopped him from speaking and warned Z that he could not leave the dugout to argue. I called acting head coach B out to talk; the head guy was not at the game he had a family thing. I told him that we have been fair, there wasn’t one call that we kept him from coming to talk to us about, but he needed to put a stop to his dugout. I explained to him that by rule he was the only person that could argue with us. He said that he understood and that he would take care of it. I thanked him and walked away.

As I turned my back to the dugout and started to walk away, assistant coach Z said, “You’re terrible.” I calmly turned to him, signaled the ejection mechanic and said, “Just go to the bus.” He stood up and said, “Are you talking to me?” I replied, “Yes Mr. 30 years, go to the bus.” Z then yelled while pointing at my partner, “Why are you protecting Mickey Mouse.” I replied, “Yes, he’s Mickey and I’m Minnie and you still have to go to the bus.” I wanted to say and you're Goofy, but I refrained. He then proceeded to tell me and my partner how bad we were and started to get repetitive so I told him he had to go and go now. He asked how much time he had left, and I told him he had “15 seconds.” He then waited for me to start counting, I did not and after a few moments of silence he left. He left mumbling some other insults as he walked to the bus.

My question is this? Are guys letting assistant coaches argue with them? One would think that after almost 8 full weeks of play that these guys would have figured out that their job is to sit there and shut up. Not talk to me and my partners. Get your own team if you want to argue calls.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Durham

I had a Juco game yesterday and my first ejection of the year. Here is how it went.

In the top of the 2nd, the third out was made on a non-routine play at first base where the first baseman possibly had his foot off the base. My partner called the runner out and the entire dugout erupted. I warned the dugout and told them that they could not do that. At this point, assistant coach X attempted to explain to me that his players did nothing wrong. I warned him again and told him that it was not his job, nor his players’ job to argue with the umpires; it is his head coach’s job. Then assistant coach Y attempted to argue the point with me by stating, “The game is not about you!” I then warned him by replying, “And it is not about you or your players arguing with me either.”

In the top of the 3rd there was a check swing appeal that I asked my partner for help on that he called a strike. The dugout again protested and I warned them that they could not argue balls and strikes.

In the top of the 4th there was a close double play call at first base that went against the team making all the noise. The next batter grounded out on a routine play and was out by several steps. An unidentified member in the dugout yelled in a voice that was audible to the stands, “At least you ****ing got one right.” At this point my partner walked towards the dugout and asked who said that. No one responded and assistant coach Z proceeded to walk out of the dugout to argue that “In 30 years I have never seen!” I stopped him from speaking and warned Z that he could not leave the dugout to argue. I called acting head coach B out to talk; the head guy was not at the game he had a family thing. I told him that we have been fair, there wasn’t one call that we kept him from coming to talk to us about, but he needed to put a stop to his dugout. I explained to him that by rule he was the only person that could argue with us. He said that he understood and that he would take care of it. I thanked him and walked away.

As I turned my back to the dugout and started to walk away, assistant coach Z said, “You’re terrible.” I calmly turned to him, signaled the ejection mechanic and said, “Just go to the bus.” He stood up and said, “Are you talking to me?” I replied, “Yes Mr. 30 years, go to the bus.” Z then yelled while pointing at my partner, “Why are you protecting Mickey Mouse.” I replied, “Yes, he’s Mickey and I’m Minnie and you still have to go to the bus.” I wanted to say and you're Goofy, but I refrained. He then proceeded to tell me and my partner how bad we were and started to get repetitive so I told him he had to go and go now. He asked how much time he had left, and I told him he had “15 seconds.” He then waited for me to start counting, I did not and after a few moments of silence he left. He left mumbling some other insults as he walked to the bus.

My question is this? Are guys letting assistant coaches argue with them? One would think that after almost 8 full weeks of play that these guys would have figured out that their job is to sit there and shut up. Not talk to me and my partners. Get your own team if you want to argue calls.

Too much warning, not enough ejecting.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I would have dumped Assistant Coach Y when he said "this game is not about you." That would have taken care of that clown.

As soon as Assistant Coach Z popped out of the dugout with the "in 30 years" comment, I would just assume he was the one with the "at least you ****ing got one right" comment, and would have launched him into orbit. When he asked how much time he had left, I would have told him he had no time left, and to hit the bricks now.

Assistant coaches get a real short leash in my games.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Durham

I had a Juco game yesterday and my first ejection of the year. Here is how it went.

In the top of the 2nd, the third out was made on a non-routine play at first base where the first baseman possibly had his foot off the base. My partner called the runner out and the entire dugout erupted. I warned the dugout and told them that they could not do that. At this point, assistant coach X attempted to explain to me that his players did nothing wrong. I warned him again and told him that it was not his job, nor his players’ job to argue with the umpires; it is his head coach’s job. Then assistant coach Y attempted to argue the point with me by stating, “The game is not about you!” I then warned him by replying, “And it is not about you or your players arguing with me either.”

In the top of the 3rd there was a check swing appeal that I asked my partner for help on that he called a strike. The dugout again protested and I warned them that they could not argue balls and strikes.

In the top of the 4th there was a close double play call at first base that went against the team making all the noise. The next batter grounded out on a routine play and was out by several steps. An unidentified member in the dugout yelled in a voice that was audible to the stands, “At least you ****ing got one right.” At this point my partner walked towards the dugout and asked who said that. No one responded and assistant coach Z proceeded to walk out of the dugout to argue that “In 30 years I have never seen!” I stopped him from speaking and warned Z that he could not leave the dugout to argue. I called acting head coach B out to talk; the head guy was not at the game he had a family thing. I told him that we have been fair, there wasn’t one call that we kept him from coming to talk to us about, but he needed to put a stop to his dugout. I explained to him that by rule he was the only person that could argue with us. He said that he understood and that he would take care of it. I thanked him and walked away.

As I turned my back to the dugout and started to walk away, assistant coach Z said, “You’re terrible.” I calmly turned to him, signaled the ejection mechanic and said, “Just go to the bus.” He stood up and said, “Are you talking to me?” I replied, “Yes Mr. 30 years, go to the bus.” Z then yelled while pointing at my partner, “Why are you protecting Mickey Mouse.” I replied, “Yes, he’s Mickey and I’m Minnie and you still have to go to the bus.” I wanted to say and you're Goofy, but I refrained. He then proceeded to tell me and my partner how bad we were and started to get repetitive so I told him he had to go and go now. He asked how much time he had left, and I told him he had “15 seconds.” He then waited for me to start counting, I did not and after a few moments of silence he left. He left mumbling some other insults as he walked to the bus.

My question is this? Are guys letting assistant coaches argue with them? One would think that after almost 8 full weeks of play that these guys would have figured out that their job is to sit there and shut up. Not talk to me and my partners. Get your own team if you want to argue calls.

I hate to say this, but YOU let assistant coaches argue with you.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Durham

An unidentified member in the dugout yelled in a voice that was audible to the stands, “At least you ****ing got one right.” At this point my partner walked towards the dugout and asked who said that. No one responded

"when someone in the dugout does that, pick a guy off the bench wearing a jacket and toss him. when he points to who actually said it, say 'take him with you'" - i thought that was a pretty funny line from a recent clinic i was at


this game got out of control. you had like 8 warnings in the first paragraph of the whole post, which i think is far too many for even 8 separate games. assistant coaches are there to direct traffic on a one way street, thats all they get to do. a lot of the talk back to coaches was unecessary, and the fact that you set a timer on when someone had to leave was unecessary as well. i think it could have been handled much more effectively by just cutting the assistant coach off once, and then dumping him. warn once, eject once. it seems like you had warn 15 times, eject, and then mouth off with him several times.

Should have talked to Head Coach once, from then on the assistants should start exiting. Then I would tell the head coach that not only would the next assistant coach go but he would go with him. As for the players, if you have to pick one and send him with them, preferably not the Star player.

[Durham]

I am happy to discuss any of my actions with you, but 15 warnings where no issued, there was one in the 2nd that I wrote up as 3, a team, an assistant, and an assistant. One in the 3rd, balls and strike, where they shut up. One in the fourth b/c I knew he was gonna go, and where I have been and where I work, ejections with warnings carry a lot more weight and make it easier for the guys in my group down the road when they get similar type ejections. As far as picking somebody out I have been there before, I had 27 ejections in the NY-Penn in 2000 that includes being the CC of the divisional and Championship series. But this isn't pro ball and it isn't rum dumb high school or adult where I can just dump people that I don't like and get away with not writing an ejection report or one that makes me look bad. If I ejected every coach that said word after I put a line in the sand, I would be a stupid umpire for putting a line in the sand. Were I work I have to handle the situation, and eject people for being obviously stupid not for daring to talk to me after I warn them.

It is called being approachable. You have heard of terms like firm, but fair and being a red-***. I have been a red-***, and know how to be one, but if I want to keep working my way up the Div I ladder, I can't be a red-***. They didn't get personal, and when he did he left. They didn't break a rule; technically the rule states that an assistant can't leave his position to argue, it doesn't say he can't argue from the dugout.

As far as the game being out of control, the game was fine; it was an acting head coach that didn't know how to control his dugout. I never lost my cool, and the game never slowed down. The first and second incident happened between innings and we went right back to work.

For those of you that do work PAC10, WAC, WCC, Big West, or any other Div 1 conference baseball, am I wrong in saying that the coordinators want us to be approachable and get clean ejections when we can?

Again, I will happily answer any questions you have and engage in any discussion you would like to on the topic of handling situations.

BTW, the coordinator, conference commissioner, and the conference president, all emailed me on the well written report, and the professionalism of handling the situation. Also, my partner was a current pro ball guy and he agreed that in pro ball we use to be able to just dump em, but now they want us to be kinder and gentler and approachable.

[Tim C]

I want to make one thing crystal clear:

NCAA Baseball is the last college sport that is run and controlled by the coaches.

They make the rules, they interpret the rules, and they run their games.

It is the main land of "get the call right" umpiring philosophies and Durham is 100% correct when he talks of the "approachability factor."

HOWEVER, in the Pac-10 (which is really the PAC-9 since the University of Oregon does not field a D-1 team) umpires are told "assistant coaches do not exist."

They still are there to tell batter runners: "Take two!" and take their batting gloves or shin guard after a safe hit.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Durham

I am happy to discuss any of my actions with you, but 15 warnings where no issued, there was one in the 2nd that I wrote up as 3, a team, an assistant, and an assistant. One in the 3rd, balls and strike, where they shut up. One in the fourth b/c I knew he was gonna go, and where I have been and where I work, ejections with warnings carry a lot more weight and make it easier for the guys in my group down the road when they get similar type ejections. As far as picking somebody out I have been there before, I had 27 ejections in the NY-Penn in 2000 that includes being the CC of the divisional and Championship series. But this isn't pro ball and it isn't rum dumb high school or adult where I can just dump people that I don't like and get away with not writing an ejection report or one that makes me look bad. If I ejected every coach that said word after I put a line in the sand, I would be a stupid umpire for putting a line in the sand. Were I work I have to handle the situation, and eject people for being obviously stupid not for daring to talk to me after I warn them.

It is called being approachable. You have heard of terms like firm, but fair and being a red-***. I have been a red-***, and know how to be one, but if I want to keep working my way up the Div I ladder, I can't be a red-***. They didn't get personal, and when he did he left. They didn't break a rule; technically the rule states that an assistant can't leave his position to argue, it doesn't say he can't argue from the dugout.

As far as the game being out of control, the game was fine; it was an acting head coach that didn't know how to control his dugout. I never lost my cool, and the game never slowed down. The first and second incident happened between innings and we went right back to work.

For those of you that do work PAC10, WAC, WCC, Big West, or any other Div 1 conference baseball, am I wrong in saying that the coordinators want us to be approachable and get clean ejections when we can?

Again, I will happily answer any questions you have and engage in any discussion you would like to on the topic of handling situations.

BTW, the coordinator, conference commissioner, and the conference president, all emailed me on the well written report, and the professionalism of handling the situation. Also, my partner was a current pro ball guy and he agreed that in pro ball we use to be able to just dump em, but now they want us to be kinder and gentler and approachable.

Like Tee said, in my area assistants just wouldn't "exist" in this way. I moved to my current location 4 years ago and I've had 2 college ejections (we only have JuCo and D3 around here, which is OK with me) -- both visiting coaches at the local JuCo. The rest of the college games I've worked, I've had zero. Most college coaches know the protocol, but I've found that isn't always the case at the JuCo level.

The only person that knows if you took too much is you. I'd never make judgments on another umpire ejecting or not ejecting -- I've had seasons with a lot and seasons with two (last season, actually). But I read from your post that you had a lot of interaction with assistants and that surprised me, especially after finding out you had pro experience.

[mcrowder]

What good is a warning if you're not going to follow through on it? ONE warning for this nonsense is good enough (and possibly more than they deserve considering you're talking about an ASSistant coach) - the next ANYTHING from an assistant is a ticket to the bus. Like it was said earlier, YOU let them argue with you.

[Durham]

Rich,

Truth be told, if I can out think them and shut them down with out having to write a report, then I would rather go that way, but If I must, then I won't let writing a report stop me from getting them.

Which is easier on you, ****-house with a report, or a snappy one-liner where his team laughs at him and he gets the point, and you get to go home and be with your family or go to Hooters and hang out with the guys. Like I said, if he is that stupid, he will say something again before the game is over and in the report I get to say that I warned him.

BTW, my wife had our first on 3/16 so I got to go home and play with the lil one, put them both to bed, and then go to Hooters and hang out with the guys, and then send the report in this morning.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

What good is a warning if you're not going to follow through on it? ONE warning for this nonsense is good enough (and possibly more than they deserve considering you're talking about an ASSistant coach) - the next ANYTHING from an assistant is a ticket to the bus. Like it was said earlier, YOU let them argue with you.

The purpose of a warning is to be able to write down in the report that you warned them, and really nothing else. The way the game use to be, you could just eject them and forget about the warning. I warned him, then had a clever exchange, warned the other guy and had one with him too, and had more ammo in my report than it seems you would in yours. Warnings = stacking the deck in your favor as an umpire, and nothing more.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by Durham

The purpose of a warning is to be able to write down in the report that you warned them, and really nothing else. The way the game use to be, you could just eject them and forget about the warning. I warned him, then had a clever exchange, warned the other guy and had one with him too, and had more ammo in my report than it seems you would in yours. Warnings = stacking the deck in your favor as an umpire, and nothing more.

If that's the way your conference wants it done - no problem. After finding out that we had a substitute head coach in the dugout I MAY have had a quick word with him before the game, depending on how he approached things at the plate conference.

Other than that I see no problem with how the game was handled, as NCAA/JUCCO warn/eject policies are simply different than HS or Pro ball.

In Southern Calif we tend to have very short leashes in JUCCO, D1/D3 are similar to what you have described.

[mcrowder]

Hey, no problem. Do whatever the heck you want. But don't ask for input and then argue with it all.

It does, however, remind me of the Dad who tells his kids, "Stop it or your grounded." And then when they do it again, "Really... stop it or your grounded." And again, "Boys, I'm serious." And again...

If "That's enough, coach" doesn't mean that that's enough, then what's the point unless your focus is simply on making yourself look good or have extra ammo, as you put it. Ammo for what? An unloaded gun, it appears.

[PeteBooth]

My question is this? Are guys letting assistant coaches argue with them?

IMO, the posters did answer your question, yet you felt the need to Defend your actions. If that's the case then why post to begin with.

In reading the responses, IMO the posters had no problem with your "warnings" if you were talking to the HEAD Coach. The problem which I agree with is why engage with assistant coaches.

Whether you umpire "kiddie ball" all the way up to the PROS, the assistant coaches are not afforded the same "luxory" so to speak as the head coach.

Personally I do not even pay attention to an assistant coach. I do not give them the "time of day" as that is not Their role in the game of baseball otherwise they would be head coaches.

If D1 College officials treat assistants as TEE mentioned "they do not exist", then it stands to reason Juco would follow the same rule.

If you do want to aspire to the D1 level, and a D1 official was watching this particular game, chances are his first question to you would be:

Why are you engaging with an assistant coach which IMO was the main theme of your thread.

Pete Booth