PBUC , J/R, and Evans

[Pete in AZ]

This started out as a great discussion about coming up with one book that could help all umpires. A few of you started talking about particular plays and then turned it personal. One of you made the accusation that rookies shouldn't work alone and that groups should have the jewels to demand otherwise. That sounds like something from McGriffs.

I know I will take heat for this but WWTB usually has some insight that helps me. If you have a personal axe to grind with him then you should do it elsewhere. This is an umpiring board and you have turned it into a zoo. I do not accept your apology when you say that you still mean it. I have a solo game next week. I guess I'm not worthy of your approval because I am taking a winter league game when most of the umpires around here are reffing basketball.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by Tim C
I have worked over 3,700 games and have never started or ended a game working as a one man band.

If I arrived at my game and no 2nd umpire arrived I would follow the process of my association and call our assigner. I would inform him of the problem and ask how long it would be until a subs arrived. If there was no sub I would cancel the game.

If my partner was injured during the game I would ask if there was anyone present that could umpire the bases. If there was no one I would suspend the game at that point and let the league decide what to do.

Tee:

The schools in your area must have a lot bigger baseball/travel budget than the ones in mine.

Brownsville Hanna plays Rio Grande City at Rio. That's 200 miles, round trip. Game starts at 7:30 pm, Tuesday night.

One umpire shows. The nearest umpire (actually) is 50 miles away in Mission. Even if one can be located quickly, that game wouldn't start until 9:00.

Options:

1. Cancel the game. Unacceptable. It would cost the Brownsville school district about $$300 (gas/driver) to bring the team back to Rio. There would be another meal (18 kids at $5.00 each).

2. Wait for the other umpire. Unacceptable. A game that starts at 9:00 a hundred miles from home (plus stop time for supper) puts the kiddos home around 2:30 - if all goes well at the game.

3. Coaches come and say: "Carl, will you start the game? You can call it behind the mound."

I'm calling that game. As I have.

Exigent circumstances require swift, decisive action.

"Play!"

[SanDiegoSteve]

WWTBlue,

I thought you told us you had over thirty-five years of umpiring (in your back pocket, as I recall), not twenty-five? Is that a misprint? What do you mean when you say Tim should "proof" his posts? Do you mean for spelling errors? If so, I have seen several in your latest posts, but chose not to be real picky. Spelling and neatness don't count against our grade here, Professor.

[Tim C]

Please join the list with WCB and yrs trly as the three most pompous posters on this site.

T

[BigUmp56]

Pete,

I will gladly discuss this away from the board with both you and Windy. All you'll need to do is accept e-mails from this forum. Others who have not wanted to join in the fray have contacted me away from the board. Why don't you do the same. Just click on my mail button at the end of this post.

I've never said that you're wrong for working solo, or that umpires that work solo are sub par. I guess I'm just lucky that my association had the jewels to insist that our schools pay for two man crews. If you feel that you can do a better job by yourself in a game, then more power to you. Let me point out to you that my comments regarded rookie umpires working solo. Unless you're a rookie, or an assignor who assigns rookies to work solo, the comment shouldn't bother you. The first thing you said in the first post you made in this thread was that you don't assign many solo games in your association. That implies that your association assigns at least a two man whenever possible, because it's the best thing to do. So, solo games would be a last resort. Maybe it's you who needs to go back and read what you posted previously.

Let me retract my apology to you, as it seems you're not being objective enough to know that working solo as opposed to working a two man is not the best thing to do.

Tim.

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Nov 20th, 2005 at 01:05 AM]

[Pete in AZ]

Tim,
Did you just accuse me of being pompous? All I did was point out that the same guys that argue with WWTB or WCB are at it again. They don't even read what they are saying. You have to admit that WWTB or WCB answered every question while they constantly changed the subject. Maybe they are just trying to bait him but it doesn't look like it is working. If you did not accuse me of being pompous I apologize. I'm new here and just thought I'd point out the obvious.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by Pete in AZ
This started out as a great discussion about coming up with one book that could help all umpires. A few of you started talking about particular plays and then turned it personal. One of you made the accusation that rookies shouldn't work alone and that groups should have the jewels to demand otherwise. That sounds like something from McGriffs.

I know I will take heat for this but WWTB usually has some insight that helps me. If you have a personal axe to grind with him then you should do it elsewhere. This is an umpiring board and you have turned it into a zoo. I do not accept your apology when you say that you still mean it. I have a solo game next week. I guess I'm not worthy of your approval because I am taking a winter league game when most of the umpires around here are reffing basketball.

Okay Pete,

Since I started this thread, I can address this, I think.

First, we determined about 4 pages back, that coming up with all the interps in one book was not going to happen any time soon. The subject then changed to pretty much....anything goes. I don't mind. It's my thread. I can end it at any time. Or the moderator will take care of it if it looks like it's out of control. This site is nothing like the cesspool of crud that is the one you continue to mention. That place does not need advertisement from this board.

Second, WWTB enjoys arguing back and forth, as do many others here. He has a way of irritating some of us. We all have thoughts and opinions about the game, and we all can learn from each other. Sometimes WW comes off in his writing as sounding condescending and trite. BigUmp and I are not the only ones who notice this. So, we all need to play nicely together in the sandbox, and learn to respect each other.

By the way, BigUmp isn't the only one who doesn't like the idea of working solo. Mr. Tee dislikes the idea even more, yet I haven't heard you mention it to him yet.

[Pete in AZ]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

Okay Pete,

Since I started this thread, I can address this, I think.

First, we determined about 4 pages back, that coming up with all the interps in one book was not going to happen any time soon. The subject then changed to pretty much....anything goes. I don't mind. It's my thread. I can end it at any time. Or the moderator will take care of it if it looks like it's out of control. This site is nothing like the cesspool of crud that is the one you continue to mention. That place does not need advertisement from this board.

Second, WWTB enjoys arguing back and forth, as do many others here. He has a way of irritating some of us. We all have thoughts and opinions about the game, and we all can learn from each other. Sometimes WW comes off in his writing as sounding condescending and trite. BigUmp and I are not the only ones who notice this. So, we all need to play nicely together in the sandbox, and learn to respect each other.

By the way, BigUmp isn't the only one who doesn't like the idea of working solo. Mr. Tee dislikes the idea even more, yet I haven't heard you mention it to him yet.

Okay, I'll admit that several of you are making the rest of us irritated with your comments about working solo being beneath you or a place that rookies should never go. I would rather see a rookie cut his teeth in the lower levels than make mistakes in games that mean much more.

Your comment about playing nice only counts if you do the same. Big Ump and you are constantly taking shots because he can write better than you. I don't find his way of writing to be condescending but maybe because I have a law degree and teach for a living. I'm used to people speaking and writing well. I'm not taking sides here but it seems that you are being hypocritical if you think that I mention the other site more than Big Ump. He is always putting it down. Is that condescending and feeling superior?

[Tim C]

"I don't find his way of writing to be condescending but maybe because I have a law degree and teach for a living."

Thanks for proving my point Pete.

~SIGH~ Somethings come too easily.

Tee

[SanDiegoSteve]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pete in AZ

Okay, I'll admit that several of you are making the rest of us irritated with your comments about working solo being beneath you or a place that rookies should never go.

Your comment about playing nice only counts if you do the same. Big Ump and you are constantly taking shots because he can write better than you. I don't find his way of writing to be condescending but maybe because I have a law degree and teach for a living. I'm used to people speaking and writing well.

Pete,

Tee and BigUmp are the only ones who mentioned solo games. Nobody said solo games were beneath them. I, like you, disagree that solo games are not for rookies. I am into my 20th season, and still work some one-man-band. "Harvey" is often my partner. It pays more bucks, so I say "hey, why not?" If you read my posts, you know that. Why do people's opinions irritate you? Are you that easily bothered by comments? This is a forum, and ideas are freely expressed. Should we stop because something irritates you.?

I do play nice. You have to really piss me off before I say anything derogatory. Go back and read my posts. I never fire the first shot across the bow. As far as WWTB writing better than me, puhleeeeeeze. You need to step away from the crack pipe, dude. Yeah, I guess that your law degree would keep you from knowing condescending when you see it. I went to college too, so your degree impresses me little. I am happy for you, but that's all.

Steve (did you hear that, Tim? We is juz a cupple a dum hicks that don no nuthin! Weez e-litert!)

[GarthB]

"I don't find his way of writing to be condescending but maybe because I have a law degree and teach for a living."

Wow. It's amazing how little an advanced education provides sometimes.

First: the sentence structure. Eighth grade level at best.

Secondly, consider the pure irony, and yes I am using the word correctly, not to mention the conceit of writing a condescending sentence to explain why you don't find something condescending.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
Garth,

I can see it now, coaches that read that will start teaching their athletes to yell "Back" and then dive to the base. Unpires from norhern Indiana to southern California will award third base on a play that couldn't possibly witness.

The only saving grace is that some states are smart enough to use the clause on Page 1 of the rule book. Hopkins' alleged directive to that interpreter can be dismissed by any sensible association.

I'm now reminded why I despise umpiring High School baseball. The shallow minds that come up with these rules justify their very existence with gems like "tobacco like substance". Then even simpler minds enforce this for Big League Chew. The game deserves better than what that man has done. Thankfully, a few Baseball Committee members share my feelings and control associations.

Their independence will be tested severely when this becomes a POE, nation-wide. Granted, there are some rules states may opt out of with no penalty. But there are others that come with a price. Washington is paying that price in basketball. We lost our seat at the table at FED (for basketball) for as long as we continue to not be in compliance.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Tim C
I have worked over 3,700 games and have never started or ended a game working as a one man band.

If I arrived at my game and no 2nd umpire arrived I would follow the process of my association and call our assigner. I would inform him of the problem and ask how long it would be until a subs arrived. If there was no sub I would cancel the game.

If my partner was injured during the game I would ask if there was anyone present that could umpire the bases. If there was no one I would suspend the game at that point and let the league decide what to do.

In my current residence (WI), no high school game can begin with less than 2 umpires. One doesn't show up, we don't play.

--Rich

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

In my current residence (WI), no high school game can begin with less than 2 umpires. One doesn't show up, we don't play.

--Rich

In many areas, including mine, it has become a "safety" issue. That was the reason given for even subvarsity games to require two umpires.

But even better, AAA legion is three man.

[Pete in AZ]

It never ceases to amaze me. You took one sentence out of context, just like you did to WWTB. I said that I didn't find his way of writing to be condescending because I teach and have a law degree. I am surrounded by people who try to impress each other all day. I teach pre-law and enjoy not having to hear and see preening attorneys before the bench. I never said that I was smarter or more literate. I simply pointed out that his style doesn't bother me - Tim C. and Garth's do. It is nice to know that your strength is in putting people down rather than adding to the conversation. WWTB's famous verbal obstruction call post was a couple of weeks ago yet Garth never added his opinion. Even though he now says he disagrees with the Fed ruling; where was your post to say what you thought back then? It is so much easier to sit on the side and put others down when they make a stand. I tried to be diplomatic but I now see why some people find the bot of you to be arrogant. You put down others for picking on grammatical errors, then do it yourselves. I'll borrow a line you seem fond of. "~sigh ~"