PBUC , J/R, and Evans

[His High Holiness]

All,

BigUmp may be onto something. He does not appear to know much about umpiring but he does appear to understand the mecurial Gary McGriff.

I have been reading McGriff's on an off since 1998. I believe that it started back in 1996 so I have most of the history under my belt. I do not view it much anymore but generally take a gander about once every week or two for laughs. I do not look at any of the boards much any more either as most will note that my participation has dropped off to once a week or so. It is Friday, however. (Long running joke for new posters which someone else can explain.)

I am getting ahead of myself. First, Gary McGriff must be put in perspective. This is a man who operates a long standing public nuisance. The fact that it is free to us is no excuse. Gary implies that he does not make a profit on the board but it is run something like a business. He has ads and links to profit making sites and theoretically it could be a proifit making enterprise. An examination of his tax returns regarding this matter would be interesting.

Imagine for a moment that a bank that operates above board. No money is embezzled. All deposits are paid on time. Interest is at competitive rates. Yet it looks the other way as drug money and other illegal activities occur under its nose. Only when the government continually harrasses it with enforcement actions does it try to clean up its act, and then only reluctantly.

Imagine a bar where the owner pays all his taxes and observes all zoning laws but where the police have to go every night to break up a fight because the owner does not police his own establishment. Imagine a swimming pool with clean water and nice facilities but no fence around it to keep little kids from entering and drowning.

All of these activities are public nuisances. McGriffs is a public nuisance. Gary has been warned over and over about what is going on over on that site. I have not posted there in well over a year, yet my name and moniker keep showing up in the author line of numerous posts. Dozens of other posters have been victims of having their names dragged through the mud over there with no recourse other than to deny it by entering the cesspool. Many vicitms may not be aware that their name is attached to some homophobic or racist post.

Like the bank making money from thugs, or the bar making money from fighting drunks, Gary chooses to do nothing. Legally, he has become a willing participant in this long running obscenity. Rational pleas to his better side fall on deaf ears.

On thing gets to Gary, however. I have noticed that if a poster makes a continued pointed attack, Gary is finally moved to act. Over the years, various trolls have attempted to overwelm the board with continuous posts that are out of line. Gary starts with deletions and is forced to monitor his own cesspool on a daily or even hourly basis in order to keep the trolls at bay. This takes enormous amounts of his time and he then grudgingly makes changes, sort of like the barkeeper who finally gets the message when his bar is torn up by the police and drunks fighting. Let's look at some history (which is by no means complete):

1. The first time I ever remember Gary taking action was with the Satan poster. This poster and his minions was the first that I remember Gary engaging in censorship. Finally someone had gone over the top.

2. The buttsnuffler vs Peterkisser wars. Gary monitored the board on a daily basis to clean it up for if he did not, the garbage overwelmed the site. What I find amusing about this period was that although the conflict was carried out in Carl's and my names, we made few of the posts.

3. Automated links to porn sites. The continually posting of automated links to porn sites forced Gary to abandoned his old style thread system. He could not keep up with the computer postings that were overwelming his site. He had been begged for years to abandon his thread system, but like a stubborn mule, he would not. A coordinated attack forced his hand.

4. Rut vs. Windy vs Observer of the Obvious et al. These posters laid waste to the wasteland that was McGiffs. Gary finally instituted IP numbers to clean it up. This incident, more than any other, exposed the hypocrisy of Gary McGriff. With IP numbers, the problem was reduced by 90%. However, most people, including Windy, stopped posting. Perhaps Gary could not stand to see the big hole in his site so he did away with IP numbers and the problems returned. My hypothesis is that Gary needs traffic to fund his site and the traffic was reduced too much by his posting of IP numbers.

5. BigUmp's stealth attack along with continued troll postings is the latest in a long line of nuisances to Gary. By continually posting a link to his site, BigUmp forced Gary to clean things ump. Gary has gone back to IP numbers. Gary now has nothing on his baseball site so do not expect that to last. He needs the traffic.

BigUmps analysis is entirely consistent with the way that Gary operates. Only when someone makes a total nuisance of themselves does Gary act. Requests, pleas, innocent victims -- none of that works with Gary. Making yourself a nuisance to Gary is the only thing that spurns him to action. BigUmps link in every thread was that nuisance.

Gary has no more moral right to operate a public nuisance than a porn site has a right to send spam using the cover that since you once bought a scenic calendar from them, you are an existing customer. Gary may be legally in the right to operate his nuisance, but legally, BigUmp can make a bigger nuisance of himself to get Gary's attention. Nothing else seems to work with Gary.

Peter

[Edited by His High Holiness on Dec 2nd, 2005 at 04:14 PM]

[TBBlue]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve














I don't pick the fights around here. I don't as you say, argue and argue.[/B]

Yup, I buy it. If true, this post will not be answered by SDS.

Big, if you check the last 100 days again, (where do you find the time?) you will find maybe one or two posts in the last two and a half months by me...hmmm I wonder what the coincidental factors to that are? Also, my posts weren't answered for one of two reasons. I bored everybody to tears, or nobody had anything else to add or contradict. I side to the first one, but whatever.

Have fun guys.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by His High Holiness
All,

BigUmp may be onto something. He does not appear to know much about umpiring but he does appear to understand the mecurial Gary McGriff.

I have been reading McGriff's on an off since 1998. I believe that it started back in 1996 so I have most of the history under my belt. I do not view it much anymore but generally take a gander about once every week or two for laughs. I do not look at any of the boards much any more either as most will note that my participation has dropped off to once a week or so. It is Friday, however. (Long running joke for new posters which someone else can explain.)

I am getting ahead of myself. First, Gary McGriff must be put in perspective. This is a man who operates a long standing public nuisance. The fact that it is free to us is no excuse. Gary implies that he does not make a profit on the board but it is run something like a business. He has ads and links to profit making sites and theoretically it could be a proifit making enterprise. An examination of his tax returns regarding this matter would be interesting.

Imagine for a moment that a bank that operates above board. No money is embezzled. All deposits are paid on time. Interest is at competitive rates. Yet it looks the other way as drug money and other illegal activities occur under its nose. Only when the government continually harrasses it with enforcement actions does it try to clean up its act, and then only reluctantly.

Imagine a bar where the owner pays all his taxes and observes all zoning laws but where the police have to go every night to break up a fight because the owner does not police his own establishment. Imagine a swimming pool with clean water and nice facilities but no fence around it to keep little kids from entering and drowning.

All of these activities are public nuisances. McGriffs is a public nuisance. Gary has been warned over and over about what is going on over on that site. I have not posted there in well over a year, yet my name and moniker keep showing up in the author line of numerous posts. Dozens of other posters have been victims of having their names dragged through the mud over there with no recourse other than to deny it by entering the cesspool. Many vicitms may not be aware that their name is attached to some homophobic or racist post.

Like the bank making money from thugs, or the bar making money from fighting drunks, Gary chooses to do nothing. Legally, he has become a willing participant in this long running obscenity. Rational pleas to his better side fall on deaf ears.

On thing gets to Gary, however. I have noticed that if a poster makes a continued pointed attack, Gary is finally moved to act. Over the years, various trolls have attempted to overwelm the board with continuous posts that are out of line. Gary starts with deletions and is forced to monitor his own cesspool on a daily or even hourly basis in order to keep the trolls at bay. This takes enormous amounts of his time and he then grudgingly makes changes, sort of like the barkeeper who finally gets the message when his bar is torn up by the police and drunks fighting. Let's look at some history (which is by no means complete):

1. The first time I ever remember Gary taking action was with the Satan poster. This poster and his minions was the first that I remember Gary engaging in censorship. Finally someone had gone over the top.

2. The buttsnuffler vs Peterkisser wars. Gary monitored the board on a daily basis to clean it up for if he did not, the garbage overwelmed the site. What I find amusing about this period was that although the conflict was carried out in Carl's and my names, we made few of the posts.

3. Automated links to porn sites. The continually posting of automated links to porn sites forced Gary to abandoned his old style thread system. He could not keep up with the computer postings that were overwelming his site. He had been begged for years to abandon his thread system, but like a stubborn mule, he would not. A coordinated attack forced his hand.

4. Rut vs. Windy vs Observer of the Obvious et al. These posters laid waste to the wasteland that was McGiffs. Gary finally instituted IP numbers to clean it up. This incident, more than any other, exposed the hypocrisy of Gary McGriff. With IP numbers, the problem was reduced by 90%. However, most people, including Windy, stopped posting. Perhaps Gary could not stand to see the big hole in his site so he did away with IP numbers and the problems returned. My hypothesis is that Gary needs traffic to fund his site and the traffic was reduced too much by his posting of IP numbers.

5. BigUmp's stealth attack along with continued troll postings is the latest in a long line of nuisances to Gary. By continually posting a link to his site, BigUmp forced Gary to clean things ump. Gary has gone back to IP numbers. Gary now has nothing on his baseball site so do not expect that to last. He needs the traffic.

BigUmps analysis is entirely consistent with the way that Gary operates. Only when someone makes a total nuisance of themselves does Gary act. Requests, pleas, innocent victims -- none of that works with Gary. Making yourself a nuisance to Gary is the only thing that spurns him to action. BigUmps link in every thread was that nuisance.

Gary has no more moral right to operate a public nuisance than a porn site has a right to send spam using the cover that since you once bought a scenic calendar from them, you are an existing customer. Gary may be legally in the right to operate his nuisance, but legally, BigUmp can make a bigger nuisance of himself to get Gary's attention. Nothing else seems to work with Gary.

Peter

[Edited by His High Holiness on Dec 2nd, 2005 at 04:14 PM]

Ah, Peter, Peter, Peter. I can read a calendar. It's Friday. Nice, try though.

One can see even you almost gagged while trying to keep a straight face.

No, sorry. I know Gary. It wasn't a silly extortion attempt that caused him to change his site, yet again.

BigUmp would get up at 4:00 in the morning, complain it was dark, then take credit for the sun coming up.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Look, Carl made a great point; this site allows the flow of free thought as it pertains to baseball, umpiring, communicating or educating.

It does not matter whether you have a new book to sell, paid site to advertise or clinic to publicize, you are free to lie and distort to suit your needs. My guess is that some gingko biloba may be in order. As I told Bob Lyle, the Official Forum Rules are there for a reason. Unless of course, you are the King and Bob, Mick and Brad don't want to tell you that you have no clothes on.

What were they saying about Gary's hypocrisy? Oh yeah, he just doesn't understand how he's alienating the people who support his site. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It might be time to lock down another thread before this one goes the way of the others.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by His High Holiness



Imagine for a moment that a bank that operates above board. No money is embezzled. All deposits are paid on time. Interest is at competitive rates. Yet it looks the other way as drug money and other illegal activities occur under its nose. Only when the government continually harrasses it with enforcement actions does it try to clean up its act, and then only reluctantly.

Imagine a bar where the owner pays all his taxes and observes all zoning laws but where the police have to go every night to break up a fight because the owner does not police his own establishment. Imagine a swimming pool with clean water and nice facilities but no fence around it to keep little kids from entering and drowning.

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try.
No hell below us,
Above us, only sky.
Imagine all the people,
Living for today.

Imagine there's no countries,
It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for,
And no religion too.
Imagine all the people,
Living life in peace, you-ooo...

You may say that I'm a dreamer,
oh but I'm not the only one.
I hope someday you will join us,
And the world will be as one.

- J. Lennon

[Edited by SanDiegoSteve on Dec 2nd, 2005 at 08:37 PM]

[BigUmp56]

Ah, Peter, Peter, Peter. I can read a calendar. It's Friday. Nice, try though.

One can see even you almost gagged while trying to keep a straight face.

No, sorry. I know Gary. It wasn't a silly extortion attempt that caused him to change his site, yet again.

BigUmp would get up at 4:00 in the morning, complain it was dark, then take credit for the sun coming up.

[/QUOTE]

Garth,

Now your simply being obtuse. Your inability to look at he facts presented and examine them objectively just shows your arrogance.

Think about what I've told you on a factual basis.

1) Fact: On the morning of November 16th, Gary asked me to stop posting the link. If you dispute this fact, you can go to the archives on my board and look at his post.

2) Fact: On the evening of Nov. 16th., I sent Gary my reply telling him I would stop posting the link if he would change things.

3) Fact: On Nov. 21st, Gary cleaned out the board completely. This was done after 11 months of e-mails from me and several umpires from the NFUA had gotten nowhere.

Summation:

Anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence can only conclude that there is as direct corelation between my reply to Gary, and his decision to change his board.

I consider you to be not just a reasonably intelligent man, but an extremely intelligent man, Garth. You know the truth, but will not be reasoned with and convinced that you were wrong.

Also, if you know Gary personally and did not try to convince him that the site was a disgrace that needed some serious changes implemented, you should be ashamed of yourself as well.

Tim.

[Tim C]

Well I am not claiming credit. HOWEVER Tim, prior to your discussions with Mr. McGriff I intoned on the paid side of this site (see Strikes & Outs -- Umpires and the Internet) that the McGriff site should be closed down.

As John Wooden said in his book "Coach": "It is amazing how much we can accomplish when no one tries to claim the credit."

Tee

[LDUB]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
Now your simply being obtuse. Your inability to look at he facts presented and examine them objectively just shows your arrogance.

It is Friday, and Peter just posted that to create a stir. I seriously dobut that Peter would actually agree with you.

Originally posted by BigUmp56
2) Fact: On the evening of Nov. 16th., I sent Gary my reply telling him I would stop posting the link if he would change things.

I still can't believe that anyone would actually say that to the owner of a (I assume) for profit website. Gary has ads on that site. If people stop reading his forum and go to yours, he will lose money. I am suprised Gary still lets you post there.

Originally posted by BigUmp56
3) Fact: On Nov. 21st, Gary cleaned out the board completely. This was done after 11 months of e-mails from me and several umpires from the NFUA had gotten nowhere.

11 months of emails? You need to get a life.

Originally posted by BigUmp56
Anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence can only conclude that there is as direct corelation between my reply to Gary, and his decision to change his board.

I consider you to be not just a reasonably intelligent man, but an extremely intelligent man, Garth. You know the truth, but will not be reasoned with and convinced that you were wrong.

Do you have any evidence that Gary did what he did becuase of you? So far I have seen none. All you have done is assumed you were part of it. Unless Gary comes out and confirms your statements, I will never believe you.

Originally posted by BigUmp56
Also, if you know Gary personally and did not try to convince him that the site was a disgrace that needed some serious changes implemented, you should be ashamed of yourself as well.

I think you just personally insulted pretty much every member of this forum. Everyone knows who Gary McGriff is, and I would bet that few to none of them sent him any emails.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by BigUmp56


Ah, Peter, Peter, Peter. I can read a calendar. It's Friday. Nice, try though.

One can see even you almost gagged while trying to keep a straight face.

No, sorry. I know Gary. It wasn't a silly extortion attempt that caused him to change his site, yet again.

BigUmp would get up at 4:00 in the morning, complain it was dark, then take credit for the sun coming up.

Also, if you know Gary personally and did not try to convince him that the site was a disgrace that needed some serious changes implemented, you should be ashamed of yourself as well.

Tim. [/QUOTE]

Who the Phuque do you think you are? Take your evangelizing crusade someplace else. You do not know me. You do not know my values. You have no business making any such assumptions about me. I'll tell you what I tell coaches: Say anything you want about my eyesight, but don't you ever attack my integrity.

[BigUmp56]

Do you know the man personally or not, Garth? If you don't then when you said you *knew* him you were using a poor choice of words. You should have said that you know *of* him if that's what you meant.

I'll say it again. If you know him personally and did nothing to try to sway him to change the board, then you would be guilty by association for the crap that takes place there. If you don't know him personally, but rather know him by reputation only, then you should not have been offended.



Tim.

PS,

Nice tag line, Luke. If you're going to go out of your way to insult someone with a tag line, the least you could do is learn how to spell.

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Dec 3rd, 2005 at 12:07 AM]

[GarthB]

Originally posted by BigUmp56

Do you know the man personally or not, Garth? If you don't then when you said you *knew* him you were using a poor choice of words. You should have said that you know *of* him if that's what you meant.

I'll say it again. If you know him personally and did nothing to try to sway him to change the board, then you would be guilty by association for the crap that takes place there. If you don't know him personally, but rather know him by reputation only, then you should not have been offended.


I'm the guy who won't take any crap from you, Garth. That's who the phuque I am!


Tim.

No. You are someone who thinks his judgment is the only judgment. You are someone who believes he should impose his values on everyone else. You are someone who is intolerant of any view of the world that is not yours. You are someone who has decided that he knows what's good for everyone. You are someone who can't stand to see anything exist that you do not agree with.

You are someone who has crossed the line.

Attacking the integrity of someone you don't know is not an act of bravery or a badge of courage. It is a narrow-minded and bigoted and stupid act. It is also a defammatory act and one that should have consequences.

I do not presume that the world should live by my values. When McGriff's went in a direction with which I did not agree, I simply quit posting there.

You will find that this is not McGriffs or Eteamz. You will not bully me into accepting your inappropriate behavior.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Did he really write 'obtuse'? Methinks he was watching Shawshank Redemption lately. I've never seen that in any of his posts before.

[Tim C]

Garth wrote:

" . . . You are someone who thinks his judgment is the only judgment. You are someone who believes he should impose his values on everyone else. You are someone who is intolerant of any view of the world that is not yours. You are someone who has decided that he knows what's good for everyone. You are someone who can't stand to see anything exist that you do not agree with.

"You are someone who has crossed the line.

"Attacking the integrity of someone you don't know is not an act of bravery or a badge of courage. It is a narrow-minded and bigoted and stupid act. It is also a defammatory act and one that should have consequences.

"I do not presume that the world should live by my values. When McGriff's went in a direction with which I did not agree, I simply quit posting there.

"You will find that this is not McGriffs or Eteamz. You will not bully me into accepting your inappropriate behavior."

-----

He11 GB, I thought you were describing me perfectly!

Tee