National Anthem

[bluezebra]

These "pop" singers usually butcher the Anthem. A National Anthem should not be open to the singer's version. Listen the the PA announcer for the Cubs sing it. Listen to someone from Cleveland sing it. Heck, a singer from Canada (on the hockey games) sings it better. Listen to a military chorus sing it.

Tonight Lew Rawls even ADDED words that are not in the song.

'“To Anacreon in Heaven.” The origin of this tune is obscure, but it may have been written by John Stafford Smith, a British composer born in 1750.'

It was an old English drinking song.

Bob

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by bluezebra
These "pop" singers usually butcher the Anthem. A National Anthem should not be open to the singer's version. Listen the the PA announcer for the Cubs sing it.

wayne messmer does a great rendition of the anthem.

[David B]

Originally posted by bluezebra
These "pop" singers usually butcher the Anthem. A National Anthem should not be open to the singer's version. Listen the the PA announcer for the Cubs sing it. Listen to someone from Cleveland sing it. Heck, a singer from Canada (on the hockey games) sings it better. Listen to a military chorus sing it.

Tonight Lew Rawls even ADDED words that are not in the song.

'“To Anacreon in Heaven.” The origin of this tune is obscure, but it may have been written by John Stafford Smith, a British composer born in 1750.'

It was an old English drinking song.

Bob

So many of our songs that we know today have come from the pubs and the bars.

The familiar song "Amazing Grace" was a german pub song originally and you really would not even recognize the tune.

Same with so many of the other tunes.

People take an old tune, rearrange it and then it becomes familiar.

Thanks
David

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by David B

So many of our songs that we know today have come from the pubs and the bars.

The familiar song "Amazing Grace" was a german pub song originally and you really would not even recognize the tune.

Same with so many of the other tunes.

People take an old tune, rearrange it and then it becomes familiar.

Thanks
David

Actually, "Amazing Grace" was written in 1779 by John Newton. He was an athiest slave trader, who, upon sailing in the Atlantic Ocean in 1748, found Gods's grace during a terrible storm that nearly shipwrecked him. He wrote the entire song, except for the last verse, which was added later.

This subject has been Pastor David Jeremiah's sermon messages for the past month. Check out archived services at http://www.shadowmountain.org

[David B]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

Actually, "Amazing Grace" was written in 1779 by John Newton. He was an athiest slave trader, who, upon sailing in the Atlantic Ocean in 1748, found Gods's grace during a terrible storm that nearly shipwrecked him. He wrote the entire song, except for the last verse, which was added later.

This subject has been Pastor David Jeremiah's sermon messages for the past month. Check out archived services at http://www.shadowmountain.org

Guys, there's two parts to a song.

The tune - which is the actual notes to the song (these came from the original tune which has since been claimed to be an American tune from the old tunebooks)

The text - the words to the song.

Mr. Newton wrote the text to the song which has since been actually modified some depending on the hymnal.

Surely this is an umpires website, but with my masters in Church Music, I've spent most of my life studying - its very interesting actually ...

BTW, I love to hear David Jeremiah, acutally listen to their service on internet several times a month.

Thanks
David

[rulesmaven]

I love the anthem. I think it's great. I also like (aside from Rosanne Barr's) when people try to do their own interpretations. Sure some of them stink, but if people didn't experiment, you'd never have Marvin Gaye in the greatest rendition of the song perhaps ever.

My pet peeve with the anthem, though, is that I'm not really sure I understand why we have to start all sporting events with it. It seems very silly to me that the only place most people hear it is before sporting contests almost always (other than occasionally in hockey and very ocassionally in baseball and basketball) between two domestic teams.

It almost cheapens it a little -- I can think of so many places where it should be played and is not, yet we all think it fits at sporting events. Weird is all.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by David B


BTW, I love to hear David Jeremiah, acutally listen to their service on internet several times a month.

David Jeremiah is my pastor, and I get to enjoy him live each week!

[Jerry]

Thank goodness we didn't have to sit through (stand through?) a Canadian National Anthem as well!

As for "Amazing Grace"; wasn't Newton an alcoholic? And that was the main reason for his penning of the song?

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Jerry
Thank goodness we didn't have to sit through (stand through?) a Canadian National Anthem as well!

As for "Amazing Grace"; wasn't Newton an alcoholic? And that was the main reason for his penning of the song?

(From Snopes.com, a slayer of urban legends)

A number of legends circulate about why John Newton, a slavetrader-turned-minister, penned the hymn 'Amazing Grace.' Most attempt to explain the seemingly inexplicable: How could one who made his living trading in the misery of others have put into words such a powerful message of personal salvation?

As is common with any number of music legends about particular songs, some will always look to events in the writers' lives that might have sparked such compositions. Thus are born tales of wild storms and pacts with God, as are stories about religious awakenings that prompted a slaver to set his cargo free. But the truth is far less poetic: 'Amazing Grace' is a song about salvation, but it wasn't composed until long after its writer had left his seafaring days behind him and become a minister.

John Newton (1725-1807) first worked as a slave buyer in Africa and later moved on to a position of captain on slave ships. He continued to make his living in the slave trade after becoming a Christian at the age of 23 in 1748. A violent storm at sea brought about his commitment to Christianity, but it was escaping with his own life that inspired him to get religion, not guilt over enslaving others. (Though this event is often pointed to as "the" conversion, it really was only the first of many such pacts with the Almighty struck by Newton, each one brought about by his close shaves with death.)

Newton quit the sea (and the slave trade) in 1754 or 1755. He did not free any of his merchandise on that 1748 trip, or on any others. Though he might have become a Christian, he did not yet allow it to interfere with his making a living.

In 1754 or 1755, he became a Tides Surveyor in Liverpool (a form of Customs Officer charged with searching for contraband and paid with half the swag taken from others). It was at this point Newton first began to express an interest in the ministry, but at the time was unable to decide between the Methodist and Anglican faiths. He was ultimately ordained a priest in the Church of England in 1764.

Newton most likely composed 'Amazing Grace' in 1772, athough there is no clear agreement on the date. According to one biographer, the hymn was penned along with a great many others during an informal hymn-writing competition he was having with William Cowper, another noted hymn writer. If so, that casts doubt upon this particular composition's being solely a cathartic outpouring of wonder over the Lord's mercy — there are, after all, only so many themes that can be expounded upon in a hymn, and personal salvation is one of them.

Newton began to express regrets about his part in the slave trade only in 1780, thirty-two years after his conversion, and eight years after he wrote 'Amazing Grace.' In 1785 he began to fight against slavery by speaking out against it, and he continued to do so until his death in 1807.

Thus, the bare bones of the story are true: A former slave trader did compose one of the most moving hymns of our times. But the meat of the claim — that a horrific event spurred a sinner to immediately repent his evil ways, penning 'Amazing Grace' as an expression of his repentence — fails on the facts. Newton's storm-driven adoption to Christianity didn't change him all that much; he continued to make his living from the slave trade for many years afterwards and only left the trade when his wife insisted upon their living a settled life in England. (Indeed, less than a year after his storm-driven conversion, Newton was back in Africa, brokering the purchase of newly-captured blacks and taking yet another "African wife" while there. He was hardly the poster boy for the truly penitent, at least at that point in his life.)

Newton did eventually grow into his conversion, so that by the end of his days he actually was the godly man one would expect to have penned 'Amazing Grace.' But it was a slow process effected over the passage of decades, not something that happened with a clap of thunder and a flash of lightning. In Newton's case, the "amazing grace" he wrote of might well have referred to God's unending patience with him.

Sources

Gray, Alice (editor). Stories for a Faithful Heart.
Sisters, OR: Multnomah Publishers, 2000.

Bumiller, Elisabeth. "The President Makes Danger His Campaign Theme." The New York Times. 25 January 2004.

Martin, Bernard. John Newton: A Biography. London: Heinemann, 1950.

Pollock, John. Amazing Grace: John Newton's Story.
San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1981.

Swift, Catherine. John Newton. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1991.


[Edited by GarthB on Oct 24th, 2005 at 02:55 PM]

[Jerry]

Garth,
As you know, being a Senior Umpire, we officials need to be versed on a wide variety of topics!

Your dissertation didn't mention it . . . but slavery was quite legal in the United States until the mid - 1800's. Hardly a reason for Newton to feel too much remorse; as you've pointed out. Much less a reason to write a song based on his personal feelings. The contest idea sounds more like the truth.

It is curious on why so many AA groups use "Amazing Grace" as their anthem though.

Jerry

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Jerry
Garth,
As you know, being a Senior Umpire, we officials need to be versed on a wide variety of topics!

Your dissertation didn't mention it . . . but slavery was quite legal in the United States until the mid - 1800's. Hardly a reason for Newton to feel too much remorse; as you've pointed out. Much less a reason to write a song based on his personal feelings. The contest idea sounds more like the truth.

It is curious on why so many AA groups use "Amazing Grace" as their anthem though.

Jerry

However, Newton was British and lived in London. Slavery was abolished in Great Britain in 1772 and without bloodshed.

[Jerry]

Garth,
My sources tell me that the slave trade in Great Britain was outlawed in 1807; but slavery itself wasn't abolished there until 1833. There was quite the influx of slaves to Canada, Australia and the United States up to the mid-nineteenth century; some legal; many illegal.

I'm not sure where Newton fit into all of that.

I'm also not sure when he wrote the music for the Star Spangled Banner or the Canadian National Anthem; but it must have been during that time.

Jerry

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Jerry
Garth,
My sources tell me that the slave trade in Great Britain was outlawed in 1807; but slavery itself wasn't abolished there until 1833. There was quite the influx of slaves to Canada, Australia and the United States up to the mid-nineteenth century; some legal; many illegal.

I'm not sure where Newton fit into all of that.

I'm also not sure when he wrote the music for the Star Spangled Banner or the Canadian National Anthem; but it must have been during that time.

Jerry

1. Slavery was ruled illegal in Great Britain by its highest court On February 17th, 1772. Your sources may be referencing a subsequent act by parliament.

"The King's Bench, Britain's highest court, accepted the case on February 17, 1772. Lord Mansfield himself had been appointed chief justice to that court. Hence, he found himself in the odd position of deciding an appeal of his own prior ruling. On Monday, June 22, 1772, King's Bench Chief Justice, Judge William Murray, first Earl of Mansfield, and former speaker of the House of Lords (at left), overturned his own ruling, the one that he had made on that fateful Christmas day, six months before almost to the day. He was asked to write the final decision of the appeals court. He reasoned that slavery was so odious and unnatural that nothing but positive law could support it. No such law being found to exist, Mansfield concluded that there was no legal backing for slavery in England. Furthermore, he judged that English civil rights applied to all, and so no Black person could be removed from England against their wishes. He wrote the following words into British common law -- words that have been memorized by British schoolchildren ever since. "The air of England is too pure for a slave to breathe, and so everyone who breathes it becomes free. Everyone who comes to this island is entitled to the protection of English law, whatever oppression he may have suffered and whatever may be the colour of his skin."

2. You are confused. Newton had nothing to do with the National Anthem. The tune was by John Stafford Smith, words, of course, by Francis Scott Key.

[LDUB]

In England in 1772 the case of a runaway slave named James Somerset, whose owner, Charles Stewart, was attempting to return him to Jamaica, came before the Lord Chief Justice William Murray, Lord Mansfield. Basing his judgement on Magna Carta and habeas corpus he declared: "Whatever inconveniences, therefore, may follow from a decision, I cannot say this case is allowed or approved by the law of England; and therefore the black must be discharged." It was thus declared that the condition of slavery could not be enforced under English law. This judgement did not, however, abolish slavery in England, it simply made it illegal to remove a slave from England against his will, and slaves continued to be held for years to come.

Slavery was outlawed in British colonies in 1833. All slaves in the entire empire were emancipated in 1834, but they were not free. They were now indentured servants to their former owners.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by LDUB

Slavery was outlawed in British colonies in 1833. All slaves in the entire empire were emancipated in 1834, but they were not free. They were now indentured servants to their former owners.

That's just half the story.

Murray's decision was then appealed to the High Court and the decision was as I posted above. The court ruling DID indeed, according to the history of British Law, make slavery illegal IN Great Britain.