LL Minn vs Iows

[Rich Ives]

Tee,

As far as I can tell

1) You have never seen me coach.
2) You have never talked with players I've coached.
3) You've never talked with the parents of those kids.
4) You have not had any discussions with other coaches or parents in the league.
5) You have not had any conversations with our umpiring staff regarding me.
6) No league officer has discussed me with you.

Therefore you havs no first hand basis for knowing how I fit in the coaching world on the field.

Your perceptions are thus those you have formed by reading my writings on line, as are my perceptions of you.

You seem to take offense at my defense of Little League and youth baseball. Whatever your opinion, I believe I have a right and an obligation to present the other side of the picture. No matter your opinion, you need to recognize that millions or people each year aprticipate in youth baseball (and other sports) and welcome and enjoy the opportunity. They differ from you, but that does not make them wrong. This is not your fiefdom, and opposing opinions are allowed.

You definitely take offense that I point out that many of the posters here brush off questions and comments from those deemed inferior. You, and others, are offended that I point out that they do not yet have your knowledge. My position is that it seems irrational to both complain that they don't know and also turn your back on them when they seek the knowledge. I cannot understand why you feel both positions are acceptable.

You have a personal set of rules of conduct. While your are certainly entitled to your beliefs, the positions you take are not universally held. Instead of recognizing that others are entitled to their opinions, you belittle them. A person who doesn't give a damn if a hat is fitted or adjustable is merely someone with a different opinion.

I have no doubt about your ability as an umpire. I have no doubt that your rules knowledge is superior.

But your intolerance for others is something you need to address.

I live in a rural area where people have widely different opinions on many things. The size of the area means that we cannot go on our merry way, never to cross paths again. We have to live and work together on many occasions.

We thus have developed the ability to separate activities. Two people who, on Monday night, have a loud disagreement over a subject in one venue, can team together on Tuesday in another venue. It is a way of life. It exhibits that we recognize that "different" and "wrong" are two separate things. It illustrates that a disagreement on one subject doea not mean there cannot be agreement on another.

This ability is necessary for a small community to function, and it is a skill/trait that would serve you well to develop.

[Tim C]

"But your intolerance for others is something you need to address."

Don't you dare to tell me how to live my life, rat.

-------------------
" . . . and it is a skill/trait that would serve you well to develop."

You have no idea what skills I have squeaky. No idea at all.

------------------

"You don't know me, you just think you know me."

DeRay Lindro -- "Get Shorty"





[Edited by Tim C on Aug 20th, 2005 at 04:36 PM]

[Dave Hensley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carl Childress

1. Little League is the largest baseball organization in the world with hundreds of thousands of umpires, give or take a few thousand. There are many things wrong with them. I don't like tight bases. I don't like reentry in any spot in the line-up. I don't like a designated runner for the fat first baseman. I don't like it that the MUST PARTICIPATE rule goes by the wayside at tournament time.

Just as a point of edification:

re-entry in any spot in the lineup goes away during tournament play, and it goes away in regular season if the league adopts the optional continuous batting order rule;

the special pinch runner can now only run for the fat first baseman one time and one time only in the game - Fatty will have to get his exercise next time he gets on base;

the mandatory play rule is in effect during tournament play; however, it is more relaxed (3 outs and 1 at bat in tournament vs. 6 outs and 1 at bat in regular season) than in regular season.

By the way, Carl, the 17/18 yearold Big League team from Falfurrias, who represented their section in the Texas Big League tournament I worked last month, knew you and remembered your working some of their games (no doubt in a different league than their Little League team.)

[Carl Childress]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Originally posted by Carl Childress

Just as a point of edification:

re-entry in any spot in the lineup goes away during tournament play, and it goes away in regular season if the league adopts the optional continuous batting order rule;

the special pinch runner can now only run for the fat first baseman one time and one time only in the game - Fatty will have to get his exercise next time he gets on base;

the mandatory play rule is in effect during tournament play; however, it is more relaxed (3 outs and 1 at bat in tournament vs. 6 outs and 1 at bat in regular season) than in regular season.

By the way, Carl, the 17/18 yearold Big League team from Falfurrias, who represented their section in the Texas Big League tournament I worked last month, knew you and remembered your working some of their games (no doubt in a different league than their Little League team.)

Thanks for the info. I still don't like it: It isn't real baseball (just kidding, Rich).

Those guys played in a fall league and visited Edinburg Soto's field. (Named after one of my students who died of leukemia.)

But I would call Big League (if they had it here). It is real baseball. (Don't get excited, Rich)

I was the UIC for the Weslaco Senior League for four years. They play loose bases. But as I remember, they also had help for the fat first baseman.

Oh, well....

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by Rich Ives

You have a personal set of rules of conduct. While you are certainly entitled to your beliefs, the positions you take are not universally held. Instead of recognizing that others are entitled to their opinions, you belittle them. A person who doesn't give a damn if a hat is fitted or adjustable is merely someone with a different opinion.

But your intolerance for others is something you need to address.

One thing I've found about Tee is that the postitions he takes on most issues are, in fact, "universally" held among top umpires. The "belittling" that Tee does is exactly the belittling the umpire will face from his peers at the best levels if the umpire does not have most of Tee's attitudes. A person who doesn't give a damn about a fitted vs adjustable hat is not a person with a different opinion, he is an inferior being in top umpire circles.

My beef with Tee is that he is unable to see beyond the ridiculous close mindedness of the top umpire corps and step out and call their foolishness exactly what it is, foolishness. For Tee isn't expressing an "opinion," he is a reflection of thousands of opinions of top umpires. In other words, he isn't "intolerant" as you say, he is reporting the reality of the top umpire corps. I guess that's his job as a journalist. Wannabe NCAA or top FED umpires ignore his "belittling" at their peril.

It's a shame that Tee with 30 years of experience cannot step up and challenge the imbeciles that compose top umpiring circles. What does he have to lose? OTOH, perhaps he recognizes the hopelessness of rattling the cages of the imbeciles. In that respect, he is doing the readers here a favor, and you, Rich, are doing them a great disservice. Your opinions, unlike Tee's, will lead them to oblivion.

[Rich Ives]

"Wannabe NCAA or top FED umpires ignore his "belittling" at their peril."

Two points.


1) Most youth league umpires are not Wannabee NCAA or top FED umpires and have neither the time not inclination to be one. They just want to improve what they do for their youth leagues. And so what if there are thousands of the top dogs. Based on player participation numbers, there are probably 10 times as many youth league umpires as top echelon umpires This means there are a significant number of folks who are not at all affected by upper echelon hooey, and most don't care. His opinion, alone or shared, still represents a minority. (The notion that it has to apply to everyone is where the intolerant thought originates.) Which leads to

2) How sad it is that the top dogs don't, or refuse to, recognize this.




[Edited by Rich Ives on Aug 20th, 2005 at 07:16 PM]

[Rich Ives]

"You don't know me, you just think you know me."

DeRay Lindro -- "Get Shorty"




It works both ways, Tee.

[Tim C]

However Biggie, I never told you how to live your life.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally posted by Tim C
"You don't know me, you just think you know me."

DeRay Lindro -- "Get Shorty"

Tee, you probably don't mean to emulate this quote. The character, Bo, is wrong; Chili Palmer knows everything he needs to know about Bo. And, of course, Bo is a poser who ends up dead in the last reel of the movie.

But seriously, this little dog forum reader appreciates the contributions by the big dogs, the rats, and the other little dogs. I also appreciate the opinion of those who aren't fans of Little League(tm), because I am critical of some parts of it myself. (Though, as a member of the league, to be critical is to be self-critical.)

Ozzy6900, you have a last chance for next year with me. I am considering now whether to re-volunteer for the 2006 season. What should I know, that I don't know from experience, about Little League to make the best informed decision?

Tee, Rich: you have both informed me, answered my direct questions, and entertained me on these internet forums. It's silly (in my mind) to think that they would be in any way better if either of you quit participating. Even this latest dogfight has been entertaining, though unfortunately low on useful content.

Thanks,
-LL

[TBBlue]

Originally posted by LilLeaguer


Ozzy6900, you have a last chance for next year with me. I am considering now whether to re-volunteer for the 2006 season. What should I know, that I don't know from experience, about Little League to make the best informed decision?

Thanks,
-LL [/B]

Hey LL,
If you know Ozzy personally, forgive my comments.

Whether you revolunteer is between you and your league/district. If they don't do what you think they should, don't go back. However, if your local group is decent, don't listen to any internet umpire tell you what you should do with your time and avocation. Make your own decision.

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by Tim C
However Biggie, I never told you how to live your life.

You've told me many times to get lost.

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by Rich Ives


Two points.


1) Most youth league umpires are not Wannabee NCAA or top FED umpires and have neither the time not inclination to be one. They just want to improve what they do for their youth leagues. And so what if there are thousands of the top dogs. Based on player participation numbers, there are probably 10 times as many youth league umpires as top echelon umpires This means there are a significant number of folks who are not at all affected by upper echelon hooey, and most don't care. His opinion, alone or shared, still represents a minority. (The notion that it has to apply to everyone is where the intolerant thought originates.) Which leads to

2) How sad it is that the top dogs don't, or refuse to, recognize this.

How sad that LL umpires have no inclination to move up the ladder. Even sadder is the fact that most LL umpires are incapable of moving of the ladder after years of learning bad habits in LL. As has been noted on this forum many times, after a while most LL umpires become untrainable for big boy ball because of years of developing bad habits.

Tee's opinion may be in a minority when it comes to all umpires if you count LL umpires as umpires. That's like saying that doctors are in a minority when it comes to health care professionals. That's true, they are a minority of health care professionals but their opinions are the ones that count when it comes to setting the standard of care for the health care profession. Judges are the minority of the law enforcement profession but their opinions are what count in setting the standard for the law enforcement profession. MLB and NCAA umpires are the minority of the baseball officiating profession but their opinions are what counts in setting the standard. Would it hurt LL umpires to follow their lead? It would certainly benefit those that ultimately decide they want to move up the food chain. Right now, they are locked into a ghetto forever.

[Rich Ives]

How sad that LL umpires have no inclination to move up the ladder.

How sad it is that you think that it matters.

Most LL coaches have no inclination of moving up to be a HS coach, or higher. They just want to be part of their kids lives for a while. That doesn't mean they are a bad coach.

Most LL presidents have no inclinaton to move up to be the HS AD, or higher. They just want to make the league the best they can. That doesn't make them a bad president.

There are a lot of people who are happy being a techie and want no part of management. That doesn't make them a bad employee.

All-star Joey wants to be a firefighter and all-star Billy wants to be a computer game designer. Is one or both of them wrong, and lesser people, for having a goal other than what you think it should be?

People have different goals. But they are their goals, not yours or mine. Why mark them as inferior because they don't share yours?

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
All-star Joey wants to be a firefighter and all-star Billy wants to be a computer game designer. Is one or both of them wrong, and lesser people, for having a goal other than what you think it should be?

Does Billy say that he wants to be bad at what he does and have other people laugh at him when they see his work?

LL umpires are bad, and many laugh at them when they are on TV.

I would assume Billy would try to be the best computer game designer he can be. LL umpires choose to remain bad, even though they have the opportunity to move up and improve their skills.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by LDUB
LL umpires choose to remain bad, even though they have the opportunity to move up and improve their skills.

I'd rephrase this as: Some (too many) youth league umpires choose to remain bad even though they have the opportunity to improve their skills.

It's not just a LL situation.

Moving up is only one way to improve one's skills.

Too many are stuck in the "unconcious incompetence" state of umpiring -- they don't know that they're "bad", and, might think that they are "better" than those that work higher levels.