LL Minn vs Iows

[Rich Ives]

The signature, which I took back off after one post, was not meant to set a pecking order. It was meant to say that of there are no games due to no organization and/or participants, then there is no need for officials. We are all necessary. In our league the officials are part on the league, not hired from the outside so I do have a real appreciation for them.

OTOH, the managers, coaches, and umpires are hired/appointed (depending on the organization and level) by the league officials so there is a pecking order.

Millions of volunteers, not only in LL but in other youth organizatios in baseball, soccer, basketball, hockey, football, and others spend countless hours trying theor best to provides sports opportuities for youth around the world. Others are doing things like Boy and Girl Scouts.

Then a select few piss all over us and our organizations and we have to sit there and take it and not respond? Not where I live.

[Edited by Rich Ives on Aug 15th, 2005 at 08:39 AM]

[Tim C]

If players and coaches didn't lie and cheat there would be no need for umpires.

[Rich Ives]

Tee,

As I said before, if you want an umpires-only board, it's really easy to start one.

Your "favorite" site, Eteamz, has message boards for each web site and access is controlled by that individual site's webmaster.

It would fit your need perfectly.

[Rich Ives]

If players and coaches didn't lie and cheat there would be no need for umpires.



I think that's a chicken/egg problem.

A most of us know from our youth, pickup games don't have umpires and they work out OK. Adding an official transfers the responsibility.

As a Basketball player, I found that games with officials were rougher than games without officials because the foul call was then treated as "not my job" by the players.

[David B]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
If players and coaches didn't lie and cheat there would be no need for umpires.



I think that's a chicken/egg problem.

A most of us know from our youth, pickup games don't have umpires and they work out OK. Adding an official transfers the responsibility.

As a Basketball player, I found that games with officials were rougher than games without officials because the foul call was then treated as "not my job" by the players.

Then it wasn't a real basketball game. The more competative the game, the more guys you would have "not" calling the foul etc.,

If they don't call the foul that's because of bad officials, not simply the fact of "having officials"

That's like every year coaches who complain about three man vs two man in basketball. They are so afraid "more" will be called, when in fact with three man its been proven less is called but the game generally is cleaner.

Go figure.

Since its that time of the year, I give my yearly complaint of LL. I don't have a problem with LL, or any other baseball group, its just that LL makes a ton of money off of the LLWS hype and what comes of it?

Not much, things don't change, the leagues continue to cheat to get to the next level etc., and then everyone gives the same ole statement -

"but its for the kids"

Right! Its for the grown-ups and we all know it. LL just won't acknowledge that.

Thanks
David

[Rich Ives]

They get about 1.6M per year for the TV rights. It allowed them to build a second stadium, double the size of the international grove, and double the number of teams they bring to Williamsport for the LLWS. LL pays all the transportation, lodging, and food costs for the teams in Williamsport. The teams get dorms and meals at regionals too.

That stuff isn't cheap.

LL is a not-for profit. They have to file financial reports that are available to the public. There aren't any stockholders, let alone stockholders getting rich. The "boss" gets about $150K per year - chump change in the CEO world. LL has about 100 paid employees world-wide. The rest of the work is done by volunteers.

The international grove in Williamsport and the dorms at regionals are off limits to everyone except the players and coaches. No fans, no media. It's a sanctuary. Heck - parents can only see their kids for an hour or so a day. They do a lot to make sure it's a fun experience for the kids.

And if you think the kids don't like being on ESPN, think again.

[Edited by Rich Ives on Aug 15th, 2005 at 11:57 AM]

[jumpmaster]

WOBW

[bbump82]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
They get about 1.6M per year for the TV rights. It allowed them to build a second stadium, double the size of the international grove, and double the number of teams they bring to Williamsport for the LLWS. LL pays all the transportation, lodging, and food costs for the teams in Williamsport. The teams get dorms and meals at regionals too.

That stuff isn't cheap.

LL is a not-for profit. They have to file financial reports that are available to the public. There aren't any stockholders, let alone stockholders getting rich. The "boss" gets about $150K per year - chump change in the CEO world. LL has about 100 paid employees world-wide. The rest of the work is done by volunteers.

...


[Edited by Rich Ives on Aug 15th, 2005 at 11:57 AM]

Rich, if LL is paying for all of the travel expenses, then why do I keep hearing on all of my local news casts that a local bank is taking donations to help send the team from my area to PA?

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by bbump82

Rich, if LL is paying for all of the travel expenses, then why do I keep hearing on all of my local news casts that a local bank is taking donations to help send the team from my area to PA?

Because LL is a rip-off. They want volounteers, donations, sell-a-thons and what have you. But there isn't even enough money to get their volounteer umpires to Williamsport.

But I am not allowed to tell you that because people like Rich think that LL is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

[Tim C]

Never, never EVER forget:

Ives is a LL rat . . . he has drank then kool-aid . . . and he will do all he can to convince you that the problem lies ANYWHERE but with his brethern.

Do me a favor . . . Rich . . . go back under the LL ROCK.

Little League Sucks.

Tee

[DG]

I have coached 12 year olds for free. Had sons playing, so there was incentive. I have umpired 12 year olds for free, although rare, call it my contribution to the community. But I have never travelled more than 10 miles from home to umpire 12 year olds for free, so Williamsport is out of the question.

I enjoy watching the 12 year olds play. Saw a game tonight. One of the pitchers was pitching with long white sleeves under his sleeveless uniform shirt. Must be ok for LL rules...

[Rich Ives]

Rich, if LL is paying for all of the travel expenses, then why do I keep hearing on all of my local news casts that a local bank is taking donations to help send the team from my area to PA?

I said they pay for the teams. They do.


They don't pay for the parents, other family members, league officials, and other hangers-on, etc.


I don't expect some of the LL bashers to believe me, so go to


http://www.littleleague.org/tourname...tRulesOnly.pdf


And read the financial responsibility section on page T-17.


It's interesting to note that the biggest LL bashers (Tee and Ozzy) aren't involved in LL, and in fact refuse to get involved so you need to ask yourself how they happen to know so much about how it works.

[Edited by Rich Ives on Aug 16th, 2005 at 12:23 AM]

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
What is "real baseball"?

A 60' field isn't real but a 70' field is?

none of the above

[BigUmp56]

I enjoy watching the 12 year olds play. Saw a game tonight. One of the pitchers was pitching with long white sleeves under his sleeveless uniform shirt. Must be ok for LL rules... [/B][/QUOTE

DG,

I didn't see the game you are talking about, but your comment about the white undershirt sleeves being long brings a question to my mind.

If the sleeve length's are approximately the same length on each individual, and are of the same color for all players, why is wearing white a problem?

LL requires only that their patch be on the sleeve of the undershirt when a vest type uniform is used.

There is nothing disallowing the use of the color white in OBR, or LL that I am aware of.


Tim.

[TBBlue]

Originally posted by ozzy6900

Because LL is a rip-off. They want volounteers, donations, sell-a-thons and what have you. But there isn't even enough money to get their volounteer umpires to Williamsport.

But I am not allowed to tell you that because people like Rich think that LL is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

There are a lot of rip-offs in this world. $2.50 for a gallon of gas is a rip-off when oil companies show record profits. $30+ for an NFL Preseason game is a rip-off to see guys who won't be playing in 4 weeks. $500+ for a season of travel ball + anywhere from $100 to $500 per player for tourneys with no expenses picked up is a rip-off. It all depends on what you want or need out of the program or product.

For my kid with marginal baseball talent, LL is the way to go because it is very economical, it is organized baseball, it teaches certain values to the kids (including the dark side of politics that he will have to be able to deal with later in life), and most of all...he has FUN playing LL. Whatever the arguments against the program, Fun for the kids is the primary goal of the organization, and they succeed overwhelmingly in that aspect. Yes, they have issues, but ultimately fun and participation is what LL is designed for. The All-Star tourney is designed to attract the more talented kids, so my marginally talented kid has the opportunity to play to a higher level than he would in a crappy instructional league.

Of the bashers, I believe Tee has an informed opinion (because I know he researches various things), and the rest tend to just jump on the bandwagon and say "Yeah, what he said...LL Sucks".