LL Minn vs Iows

[Lawrence_Dorsey]

Luke,

I worked the Dixie Junior Boys (13 yr olds) WS in Aiken SC last year. We were given an adjustable hat by the tournament staff and asked to wear it on the bases. We could wear a blank hat behind the plate. I don't like adjustable hats when I am umpiring. However, given the choice between wearing the hat I was given or not working the tournament, I chose to wear the hat.

I don't have a problem with LL giving their guys adjustable hats. Would a fitted hat look better? Sure...But it didn't happen. I would much rather be concerned with other things like why you need 6 guys on a 60 ft field, the 2nd base ump meticously dusting off the bag and the area around it (note: he should have gotten a new pair of pants that didn't look faded out), or the lack of a signal by U3 on a ball that passed between the third baseman and the line. All of these occurred in the Great Lakes final game yesterday.

I give these guys a benefit of the doubt in this regard: few, if any of us, have ever had our work displayed live on national television. With that said, there are things that you should and should not do no matter what level. I don't work LL but I can only hope that merit is the strongest component of the selection process and not simply longevity or the willingness to volunteer to spend ones' own money to work at progressive levels.

Luke I will agree with you on some of your points. However, hacks like you and me giving our two cents aren't going to change LL. It will take, as with other things, an internal change if the points that you and others raise are to be corrected.

Lawrence

[Rich Ives]

There you go with the "real baseball" excuse. Another crock excuse.

What is "real baseball"?

A 60' field isn't real but a 70' field is?

The LL pitching limits aren't real but the Pony pitching limits are?

Re-entry in LL isn't real but re-entry in any other program is?

No-leads in LL aren't real but it's OK in Ripken, Dixie, and some levels of Pony?

Is a DH real? LL doesn't use it until the 17-18 group. Either the AL or the NL isn't playing real baseball, based on the answer.

Is the Force Play Slide Rule real? If not HS, Legion, and NCAA don't play real baseball. If it is, then the pros don't play real baseball.



It's not about "real baseball."

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Lawrence_Dorsey
I worked the Dixie Junior Boys (13 yr olds) WS in Aiken SC last year. We were given an adjustable hat by the tournament staff and asked to wear it on the bases. We could wear a blank hat behind the plate. I don't like adjustable hats when I am umpiring. However, given the choice between wearing the hat I was given or not working the tournament, I chose to wear the hat.

It was Tee who said he would refuse to work the game.

I would go through with it, but I would put up a big fight, with demands that my game fee be increased and such.

Originally posted by Lawrence_Dorsey
I don't have a problem with LL giving their guys adjustable hats. Would a fitted hat look better? Sure...But it didn't happen. I would much rather be concerned with other things like why you need 6 guys on a 60 ft field, the 2nd base ump meticously dusting off the bag and the area around it (note: he should have gotten a new pair of pants that didn't look faded out), or the lack of a signal by U3 on a ball that passed between the third baseman and the line. All of these occurred in the Great Lakes final game yesterday.

You are missing the point. Chirs Hickman taked to the TD of the Western Region LL tournament. Chris asked if the TD could get fitted hats for the umpires. The TD said that they don't have the money to buy them. I have pointed out that at GD, +POS, and Honig's, fitted caps cost the same as adjustable caps. LL claims that it is a money issue when it is not. It is just another case of classic LL.

Why do they have 6 on the field? ULF is like 30 feet back from U3.

Did you guys see the ball which went to the backstop with R1 and R2 yesterday in the second game? The batter swung at the pitch and I thought he missed it. The catcher is running to get the ball and the PU starts giving the foul tip sign (He never signaled foul.) GRRR. I wish the runners would have advanced. It would have been nice to hear his talk with the offensive manager.

Originally posted by Lawrence_Dorsey
I don't work LL but I can only hope that merit is the strongest component of the selection process and not simply longevity or the willingness to volunteer to spend ones' own money to work at progressive levels.

But that's not how it is. If it was, we would have seen guys like Rich F out there.

Originally posted by Lawrence_Dorsey
Luke I will agree with you on some of your points. However, hacks like you and me giving our two cents aren't going to change LL. It will take, as with other things, an internal change if the points that you and others raise are to be corrected.

The umpires are brainwashed. They don't realize that they are missing a higher level of play and game fees at the same time. The current umpires brainwash the new umpires when they join up. I don't think the chain will ever end.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
It's not about "real baseball."

Maybe the correct term should be "non-crap baseball."

[BlueinLINY]

Originally posted by Rich Ives


It's not about "real baseball."

Extremely well put, Rich, and I'm in your camp. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I do both 60' and 90' and while I enjoy the 90' better merely because it seems the players are a little more advanced, it's still fun to do the 60' because there is no "can of corn," or "routine ground-out." That, to me, makes it enjoyable cause you never know what's gonna happen.

Just my 2 cents.

[Rich]

Originally posted by LDUB

Yeah I know. They have been brainwashed into thinking that they should work for free. With all the money that LL saves by not paying game fees, I would have thought they would have been able to afford fitted hats for the umpires.

Luke,

It's community service. If you don't want to work the games for free, don't. But don't act like the people who do are idiots.

I work a lot of paid games in a season -- college, HS, adult league, etc. I do LL for a different reason. Nobody locally gets rich doing LL -- all money that comes in goes back into the program.

So take your fitted hat and your superior attitude and, well, you know....

--Rich

[Rich]

Originally posted by LDUB

It was Tee who said he would refuse to work the game.

I would go through with it, but I would put up a big fight, with demands that my game fee be increased and such.

You are missing the point. Chirs Hickman taked to the TD of the Western Region LL tournament. Chris asked if the TD could get fitted hats for the umpires. The TD said that they don't have the money to buy them. I have pointed out that at GD, +POS, and Honig's, fitted caps cost the same as adjustable caps. LL claims that it is a money issue when it is not. It is just another case of classic LL.

Why do they have 6 on the field? ULF is like 30 feet back from U3.

Did you guys see the ball which went to the backstop with R1 and R2 yesterday in the second game? The batter swung at the pitch and I thought he missed it. The catcher is running to get the ball and the PU starts giving the foul tip sign (He never signaled foul.) GRRR. I wish the runners would have advanced. It would have been nice to hear his talk with the offensive manager.

But that's not how it is. If it was, we would have seen guys like Rich F out there.

The umpires are brainwashed. They don't realize that they are missing a higher level of play and game fees at the same time. The current umpires brainwash the new umpires when they join up. I don't think the chain will ever end.

Merit is one component. But just like anyone who's moved to a new area knows, you can be the best umpire in the world and not get assigned when you're new. I'm only in my 3rd season of umpiring LL, and I only do the tournament games. The guys that did the plate in 2001 and 2003 in Indianapolis work college baseball and HS baseball in the spring.

We aren't brainwashed. We do it cause we want to. We all have our own personal lines that we won't cross. Is it dancing with mascots or pivoting in on a clean hit with a 6-man crew? Each of us will have to answer that for ourselves.

Personally, I hope I get the chance to work at Indy some day. If that's not your cup of tea, that's OK. But it doesn't make me brainwashed.

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
There you go with the "real baseball" excuse. Another crock excuse.

What is "real baseball"?

A 60' field isn't real but a 70' field is?

The LL pitching limits aren't real but the Pony pitching limits are?

Re-entry in LL isn't real but re-entry in any other program is?

No-leads in LL aren't real but it's OK in Ripken, Dixie, and some levels of Pony?

Is a DH real? LL doesn't use it until the 17-18 group. Either the AL or the NL isn't playing real baseball, based on the answer.

Is the Force Play Slide Rule real? If not HS, Legion, and NCAA don't play real baseball. If it is, then the pros don't play real baseball.



It's not about "real baseball."

Christ, Rich - get a grip on yourself! No, LL is not real baseball! It hasn't been and never will be! You can rant and rave all you want but staying on a base without leading off and umpires throwing flags is not baseball. It's Kiddie Ball and that is all it ever will be! Why is it so hard for you guys to admitt this?

The DH is real since the AL hasn't gotten rid of it. The FPSR is for safety as you well know. None of this is pertinant to the fact that Kiddie Ball is not real baseball. What is real is that even LL umpires are living a "dream" just like the mommies and daddies of LL'ers. Why don't you curl up with Andy K. and see if he might let you have your 15 minutes of fame sometime!

[Rich]

Originally posted by ozzy6900

Christ, Rich - get a grip on yourself! No, LL is not real baseball! It hasn't been and never will be! You can rant and rave all you want but staying on a base without leading off and umpires throwing flags is not baseball. It's Kiddie Ball and that is all it ever will be! Why is it so hard for you guys to admitt this?

The DH is real since the AL hasn't gotten rid of it. The FPSR is for safety as you well know. None of this is pertinant to the fact that Kiddie Ball is not real baseball. What is real is that even LL umpires are living a "dream" just like the mommies and daddies of LL'ers. Why don't you curl up with Andy K. and see if he might let you have your 15 minutes of fame sometime!

It's MUCH better to have leading off at the 12-year old level so that every walk becomes a triple. I understand.

[Rich Ives]

Ozzy Ozzy Ozzy

I (and I quote via edit/copy) think the following statement of yours is ranting and raving (the bolding is yours and adds to the evidence):

Little League Sucks!
The LLWS is a joke! It's just a commercial thing now.
LL umpires who waste their time and money going there are nuts!


If the DH is real, then I guess the NL doesn't play real baseball. It can't be both.

If the FPSR is real, then pro ball isn't real. It can't be both.

Other organizations have WS too. Are they also only in it for commercial purposes?

With the "logic" you posted, I guess the only difference between LL and real baseball is the no lead off rule because you dismissed or ignored other examples of differences.

But if that's the case then the other organizations with no lead off rules aren't real either - but your rants don't include them. Why?


I really think you had some kind of bad experience with LL and haven't gotten over it.

[Tim C]

Coach you're so full of crap your eyes are brown.

Go be a coach and leave this umpire site . . . PLEASE.

[Rich Ives]

Tee

People keep talking about "real baseball" or "not real baseball" without defining what they mean.

There are MANY variations in the rules amongst the various rule sets and sanctioning bodies. The notion that some are real and some are not has to be based on something.

What are those somethings?

And look at the top of the page to see the posting rules. They don't say "only umpires".

[Rich]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
Tee

People keep talking about "real baseball" or "not real baseball" without defining what they mean.

There are MANY variations in the rules amongst the various rule sets and sanctioning bodies. The notion that some are real and some are not has to be based on something.

What are those somethings?

And look at the top of the page to see the posting rules. They don't say "only umpires".

Your signature is ignorant and over-emphasizes your importance.

Hey, rat, I played in a league when I was 11-12 years old where there were NO coaches. There was one adult to supervise the field all day and to organize the league, but all decisions were made by a playing team captain.

We don't NEED coaches. Over-organizing baseball is a result of parents wanting to be too involved in their children's play.

And, by the way, if it wasn't for you and your rat brethren, you wouldn't need umpires. We played pickup games all the time when I was a kid -- we kept score and made the calls ourselves.

[Rich Ives]

Good for you Rich.


But who is the rat here, me or the people who are constantly pissing all over LL and other youth baseball organizations and treating it's participants like brain dead imbicles. Really classy.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
Good for you Rich.


But who is the rat here, me or the people who are constantly pissing all over LL and other youth baseball organizations and treating it's participants like brain dead imbicles. Really classy.

I think you're both equally bad, actually. And, well, you are the rat.

I think those who constantly rip Little League and the fact that tournament umpires are volunteers are no better than builders and contractors that would go to a Habitat for Humanity house and whine that the builders aren't being paid and then make fun of their technique. Oh wait, that wouldn't happen.

But you're over the top with your signature. Your signature puts coaches at the top of the food chain and umpires at the bottom. It just isn't that way -- I mean, I've ejected people like you and the game goes on without you. The game wouldn't go on without us