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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 07:29am
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Question

15-16 yr olds, FED rules, I'm BU. Team B (visitors) is up 7-2 going into the Bottom of the 5th. Team A has made a comeback and it's now 7-6 with 1 out. Team B brings in a new F1 who on first pitch throws a ball. On the pitch, I was in the C. As the pitcher gets the ball back from the catcher, he looks into the Team A dugout (3rd base line) and yells "Oh so we're going to start talking sh!t now!" I immediately called time and ejected F1. At no time did I hear anything come from Team A's dugout, and there had been no problems before this in the game. Team B HC didn't complain to me directly, but I heard him say later that it was one of the weakest ejections he had ever seen. Did I jump the gun here? If so, what should I have done? For you coaches out there, what would your perspective of this had been if you were 1) Team B coach and 2) Team A coach?
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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 08:20am
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Tough call on this one. Sounds like you might have been quick on the trigger. However, I look at all things considered in these kinds of situations. Most important is did anyone else hear him besides you? By your post, he " yells " to the A Dugout. If it was loud enough for others to hear it, I have to say he is gone. Although it is not the F word, if you allow it, the F word is forthcoming. I feel confident of that. So you nip it in the bud.
His comments will start a dialogue back and forth that will escalate quickly and put YOU on the spot as to how you are going to handle it.

The other option here would be to address F1 directly with a firm warning and let the coach know that was their last warning. Ejections will be next. Since you heard nothing from A Dugout ( I'm presuming your partner didn't either ), that's as far as I would go. But I would be alert to any possible taunting from Team A. And the ejection to any Team A member would be swift, since they knew Team B had been warned. I would interpret their taunting as an attempt to get Team A members tossed. UC.
Just my humble opinion.

You didn't mention if things went smoothly for you after that.
If they did, then you made the RIGHT call.
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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 08:26am
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Sounds okay.
Did you consider the possibility of calling Coach B to the mound to replace his pitcher? The kid has an obvious injury (sprained tongue, lame brain) that requires treatment and removal.
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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 08:39am
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I'm sure if you ejected him, it was warranted. I don't believe anyone here should "judge" your decision since they weren't at the game. Ejections are usually flagrant violations or a result of culminating events (unless you're Earl Weaver).

For me, it depends on the game sitch. Unless there had been previous "sportmanship" problems in the game and I had to get involved, I probably would have warned the pitcher and reminded the bench that no bench jockeying is allowed. (This is only based on the one play described without the benefit of umpiring the previous 4-1/2 innings)

I also know some umpires that have a zero tolerance for cussing and would have done the same thing, regardless.

Ultimately, it's up to you to decide what actions to tolerate or not. Base those decisions on your experience and current game situations.
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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 10:58am
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It depends!

Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44
15-16 yr olds, FED rules, I'm BU. Team B (visitors) is up 7-2 going into the Bottom of the 5th. Team A has made a comeback and it's now 7-6 with 1 out. Team B brings in a new F1 who on first pitch throws a ball. On the pitch, I was in the C. As the pitcher gets the ball back from the catcher, he looks into the Team A dugout (3rd base line) and yells "Oh so we're going to start talking sh!t now!" I immediately called time and ejected F1. At no time did I hear anything come from Team A's dugout, and there had been no problems before this in the game. Team B HC didn't complain to me directly, but I heard him say later that it was one of the weakest ejections he had ever seen. Did I jump the gun here? If so, what should I have done? For you coaches out there, what would your perspective of this had been if you were 1) Team B coach and 2) Team A coach?
I would say this depends!

Obviously there was something going on in the game before this.

But some factors I would use to determine would be 1)How well do you know the players playing 2)What is expected in this league as far as behavior etc., 3)what is your reputation and standard for player conduct.

I can only speak for myself, but I use situations like this to embarass the pitcher and let him know that he will respect the game and the players playing.

I would have called time and had a discussion with the F1 right on the mound and everyone in the park would know what we were discussing. I'm sure after that there would be no more problems from F1.

But that's my style. I like to handle things and go on.

Thanks
David

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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 02:43pm
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While F1's actions were out of line, these are still big boys.
Address the issue with a warning.
It's unlikely that F1 is making that comment without having first heard something from the opponents that prompted him---even if you didn't hear it. A warning on both teams to play ball and kill the trashtalk is appropriate.

Tell them you won't put up with that kind of sh!t......(just kidding).


Just my opinion,

Freix

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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 09:49pm
DG DG is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44
15-16 yr olds, FED rules, I'm BU. Team B (visitors) is up 7-2 going into the Bottom of the 5th. Team A has made a comeback and it's now 7-6 with 1 out. Team B brings in a new F1 who on first pitch throws a ball. On the pitch, I was in the C. As the pitcher gets the ball back from the catcher, he looks into the Team A dugout (3rd base line) and yells "Oh so we're going to start talking sh!t now!" I immediately called time and ejected F1. At no time did I hear anything come from Team A's dugout, and there had been no problems before this in the game. Team B HC didn't complain to me directly, but I heard him say later that it was one of the weakest ejections he had ever seen. Did I jump the gun here? If so, what should I have done? For you coaches out there, what would your perspective of this had been if you were 1) Team B coach and 2) Team A coach?
If it was loud enough for everyone to hear toss him and don't give it another thought.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 10:01pm
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No no no

Quote:
Originally posted by DG
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44
15-16 yr olds, FED rules, I'm BU. Team B (visitors) is up 7-2 going into the Bottom of the 5th. Team A has made a comeback and it's now 7-6 with 1 out. Team B brings in a new F1 who on first pitch throws a ball. On the pitch, I was in the C. As the pitcher gets the ball back from the catcher, he looks into the Team A dugout (3rd base line) and yells "Oh so we're going to start talking sh!t now!" I immediately called time and ejected F1. At no time did I hear anything come from Team A's dugout, and there had been no problems before this in the game. Team B HC didn't complain to me directly, but I heard him say later that it was one of the weakest ejections he had ever seen. Did I jump the gun here? If so, what should I have done? For you coaches out there, what would your perspective of this had been if you were 1) Team B coach and 2) Team A coach?
If it was loud enough for everyone to hear toss him and don't give it another thought.
As Steve said, this is big boys ball and you let them do some of these things.

There had to be something said to instigate it.

Simply stop it with a warning and play.

I'd hate to be playing in a game with all of the "rabbit ear" umpires I'm reading on this board.

Thanks
David
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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 10:02pm
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Did I Jump the Gun?

First all the weal-kneed caveats, "I guesss you had to be there." and "It kind of depends." and "It's judgement."

Now a straight answer: Sure sounds like it.
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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 10:17pm
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I'd have tossed him.

Personally, loud cussing is not tolerated under almost any circumstances.
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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 10:21pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by largeone59
I'd have tossed him.

Personally, loud cussing is not tolerated under almost any circumstances.
You'd have tossed a 16 year old for making a general comment to the dugout that included the word **** and was not in reference to a person and had not been preceded by any problem. You would? Really?

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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 10:24pm
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Re: No no no

Quote:
Originally posted by David B
Quote:
Originally posted by DG
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44
15-16 yr olds, FED rules, I'm BU. Team B (visitors) is up 7-2 going into the Bottom of the 5th. Team A has made a comeback and it's now 7-6 with 1 out. Team B brings in a new F1 who on first pitch throws a ball. On the pitch, I was in the C. As the pitcher gets the ball back from the catcher, he looks into the Team A dugout (3rd base line) and yells "Oh so we're going to start talking sh!t now!" I immediately called time and ejected F1. At no time did I hear anything come from Team A's dugout, and there had been no problems before this in the game. Team B HC didn't complain to me directly, but I heard him say later that it was one of the weakest ejections he had ever seen. Did I jump the gun here? If so, what should I have done? For you coaches out there, what would your perspective of this had been if you were 1) Team B coach and 2) Team A coach?
If it was loud enough for everyone to hear toss him and don't give it another thought.
As Steve said, this is big boys ball and you let them do some of these things.

There had to be something said to instigate it.

Simply stop it with a warning and play.

I'd hate to be playing in a game with all of the "rabbit ear" umpires I'm reading on this board.

Thanks
David
This ain't big boy ball, it's 15-16 year olds playing FED rules. These guys are old enough to play JV baseball and would not be allowed to do this in a high school game under FED rules. If they don't know this already they can learn in the summer. The poster said he yelled to the dugout, and I said if if it was loud enough for all to hear toss him. Where does rabbit ears come into play?

I tossed a college player in a college wood bat summer league last summer for saying "you are f**king kidding" after a call I made at 3B (I was BU). This wasn't personal but it was profane. He was the pitcher and it was probably only loud enough for the SS, 3B, 3B coach, and maybe a few in the opposing team's dugout on the 3b side to hear, and me. It was in the 2nd inning of the first game of a DH. When I told the coach what he said all he wanted to know was how long he had to warm up the next pitcher. The coach came out before pregame of the 2nd game and says the guy only pitched a couple innings and he was hoping to use him in the second game but was concerned about that. I am behind the plate for the 2nd game. I told him I was over it soon after it happened and if the pitcher learned anything there should be no problems. He pitched 5 very good innings. Did he learn something? I hope so.


[Edited by DG on Jun 8th, 2005 at 11:41 PM]
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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 10:29pm
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Re: Re: No no no

Quote:
Originally posted by DG
Quote:
Originally posted by David B
Quote:
Originally posted by DG
Quote:
Originally posted by tmp44
15-16 yr olds, FED rules, I'm BU. Team B (visitors) is up 7-2 going into the Bottom of the 5th. Team A has made a comeback and it's now 7-6 with 1 out. Team B brings in a new F1 who on first pitch throws a ball. On the pitch, I was in the C. As the pitcher gets the ball back from the catcher, he looks into the Team A dugout (3rd base line) and yells "Oh so we're going to start talking sh!t now!" I immediately called time and ejected F1. At no time did I hear anything come from Team A's dugout, and there had been no problems before this in the game. Team B HC didn't complain to me directly, but I heard him say later that it was one of the weakest ejections he had ever seen. Did I jump the gun here? If so, what should I have done? For you coaches out there, what would your perspective of this had been if you were 1) Team B coach and 2) Team A coach?
If it was loud enough for everyone to hear toss him and don't give it another thought.
As Steve said, this is big boys ball and you let them do some of these things.

There had to be something said to instigate it.

Simply stop it with a warning and play.

I'd hate to be playing in a game with all of the "rabbit ear" umpires I'm reading on this board.

Thanks
David
This ain't big boy ball, it's 15-16 year olds playing FED rules. These guys are old enough to play JV baseball and would not be allowed to do this in a high school game under FED rules. If they don't know this already they can learn in the summer.

The poster said he yelled to the dugout, and I said if if it was loud enough for all to hear toss him. Where does rabbit ears come into play?
I'm no candy-*** when it comes to ejections. I'm more than happy to oblige coaches and players who decide they don't want to stay in the game. I have had four ejections so far this year.

However, with no previous history, this doesn't rise to the level of an ejection for me. I'd address the issue, but I wouldn't toss him. He didn't use profanity towards me or my partner, or in any personal reference to anyone. I wouldn't toss a kid for yelling "****" when he swung and missed strike three either. There are bigger battles to choose from.
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Old Wed Jun 08, 2005, 10:36pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris_Hickman
I AM NOT TRYIN' TO MONDAY MORNING Q-BACK THIS BUT I THINK THAT A GOOD " HEY...SHUT UR MOUTH AND PITCH" SOLVES THAT PROBLEM. NOW IF THE COACH WANTS TO COME OUT AND ASK YOU WHY YOU ARE TALKING TO HIS KID LIKE THAT, ASK THE COACH IF HE PREFERS ME TO "RUN" HIM. THAT USUALLY ENDS THAT. I DONT THINK AN EJ IS WARRANTED. KIDS GET HEATED UP AND EMOTIONS GET HIGH. NOW IF IT PERSISTS,
GET UM'......CHRIS....BTW... SORRY IF I AM YELLING..AFTER I TYPED THIS I REALIZED I WAS IN ALL CAPS AND I AM TOO TIRED TO START OVER :-)
shhhh, don't need to be so loud.
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Old Thu Jun 09, 2005, 12:04am
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I was working the plate in a 15/16 yearold game a week ago when my partner tossed F6 for cussing. I didn't hear what the kid said, but I just assumed he threw an F-bomb.

Between innings pard came in for a drink of water and I asked him if the kid threw an F-bomb. "No, he used the D-word." It took me a minute to realize my pard tossed a 16 yearold for saying "damn" on the field. THAT is over-officous in the extreme.

My policy is, if it's a word you can hear on primetime network television, I'm not going to get my jock in a wad over it. And in case you haven't watched TV lately, that actually provides for a fairly liberal vocabulary to be tolerated.

If it's an R-rated cussword uttered at a volume level that the women and kids in the stands can hear, then you have to run the kid. Otherwise, if the profanity is not aimed at me, I probably am not going to hear it at all. If it's aimed at an opposing player (or the bench, as was the case in the first post in this thread) I'm just going to tell the kid to knock it off.

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