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Wed May 18, 2005, 10:04am
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Yesterday I had to do a modified level game. (7th, 8th, and 9th grade) Fed rules. I was partnered with someone who I never worked with before. Before the game started I went over everything we sould have and I asked him how many games he had done this year so far. He said 8 or 9, and he had umpired a number of years ago then moved away and decided this year to start up again. I thus assumed he was somewhat experienced and didn't forsee any rookie mistakes. Boy was I wrong. I asked him who he worked with and I didn't reccognize any of the names he said. He is considered a 1st year probationary umpire in our association. He had the plate. I knew I was in trouble in the first inning when the bases were loaded, 2 outs, 3rd strike was dropped by the catcher, batter starts to run to first and I hear him say "batter is out, 1st base is occupied." Both coaches said nothing. Couple innings later, batter hits a roller up the first base line. One of those rollers with lots of spin on it. As the ball is continuing to spin up the line, I hear him call "Foul Ball." The ball keeps spinning and ends up in fair territory. Again coaches say nothing. Someone in the stands does yell out that he can't call that foul if the ball is still rolling, everyone knows that! The topper happens a couple innings later. R2, R3, batter hits a slow roller up the third base line. The ball starts out foul but turns fair and hits smack dab in the middle of third base. R3 scores but about 5 seconds after the ball hits the base I hear my partner call "Foul Ball!" I was stunned. I couldn't believe he didn't see the ball hit the base. He was looking right at it and it was obvious. It was a slow roller that hit the middle of the base and bounced straight up and landed back on the base. The coach of the offensive team is coaching 3rd base and the play is right in front of him. He of course yells "What!? The ball hit the bag! You know it hit the bag!" Partner says nothing, coach looks at me in A and says you saw it hit the bag. I look at my partner he doesn't even look at me so I just stand there and say nothing. The coach then approaches my partner and askes him why he called that foul when the ball hit the bag. My partner tells him yes, it did hit the bag but the bag is in foul territory because the base is just a little to the left of the foul line. Coach says what are you talking about the base is fair!? My partner shook his head and said no, it is a foul ball. Fans go nuts, I want to run and hide. I am embarrased to be on the field with this guy. Should I have corrected these calls even though he never asked for any help from me? What do you guys do when you are partnered with someone who obviously has no business being an umpire?
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Wed May 18, 2005, 10:10am
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You can correct a misapplication of a rule.
But there is also a rule that says if an umpire says FOUL BALL, the ball is dead. The bell can't be unrung. The assignor needs to know that this guy needs more training and a test before he gets back on the field. The rules he's making up aren't even old rules that went away - they are simply wrong. PS - why didn't coach protest (on any or all of the three).
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Wed May 18, 2005, 10:20am
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I realize that once he called foul I couldn't do anything. The play when the ball hit the bag was so obvious to everyone that the play actually continued the way it was supposed to after he called foul. The batter ran to first and stayed there, R3 scored, R2 stayed at second and the third baseman fielded the ball, looked around and knew he had no play so tossed the ball back to the pitcher. I could have said wrong thats fair run counts batter/runner stays at first. This guy was required to pass a test this year before the season started. We also use evaluation cards that all probationary umpires are required to have filled out by their certified partners. This guy actually was stupid enough to give me one after the game. I am going to call our assigner about him and also tell him not to partner me up with him again. I guess the coaches didn't protest because it was just a modified game that really doesn't mean anything. I wanted to go up to both coaches after the game and tell them how sorry I was about the poor quality official we provided for them but I thought better of it and didn't. I give both coaches all the credit in the world. They could have been all over us but both acted like gentlemen all afternoon and I am thankful for that.
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Wed May 18, 2005, 10:40am
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if its that bad, let him handle the heat. And make sure you never work with him again.
Speaking of bad umps, I saw a BU signal 'time' with the "T" motion (like in basketball) last week  [edited to add a sentence] [Edited by LMan on May 18th, 2005 at 12:16 PM]
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Wed May 18, 2005, 11:43am
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Runner at second, batter hits a ball down the first base line that 1st base umpire calls foul. Manager comes out to argue, the crew gets together, change it to a fair ball, place the batter at second and score the runner. So, in the majors at least, there is precedent to unring the bell.
__________________
"Booze, broads, and bullsh!t. If you got all that, what else do you need?"." - Harry Caray -
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Wed May 18, 2005, 11:54am
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Wed May 18, 2005, 12:36pm
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I can see where a verbal "Foul Ball" make the ball dead immediately. [5-1-1h] But R3 scored [5-2-2c], R2 is still at 2b (probably) R1 is safe by [8-1-2b]. So now we have a "dead ball" misapplication of Rule. By what rule may we not make it right? It does not seem the "Foul!" call affected any part of the play during unrelaxed action. mick
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Wed May 18, 2005, 01:46pm
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Sounds like a training issue.
I love it when people get on here and complain about there rookie partners. Then the replies come back to "make sure to never work with him again."
Im glad when i started some of the vets didnt take that aproach with me. I made some real dumb errors, instead of never working with me again, they made sure i was properly trained. What you should do is maybe talk to your head training guy about your situation. Ask him if there is anything else you can do to help train some of the new guys. Get involved with the solution, dont disregard the poor guy for his lack of knowledge of the rules.
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Wed May 18, 2005, 01:50pm
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Here, here WGYWB!!
As a relative rookie myself, I couldn't agree with you more. Don't embarass me on the field (I can do that on my own, LOL) but certainly I'm open to constructive criticism. If things aren't explained to me, I won't learn!! Thanx for your input, Blue.
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Wed May 18, 2005, 02:03pm
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Have you seen the following "enhanced" FED Official Interpretation, brand new for 2005? "SITUATION 3: With one out and a 1-1 count, the batter hits a high fly ball in left field near the foul line. The umpire declares Foul Ball as the fly ball is subsequently caught by the left fielder. RULING: Once the umpire verbally declares Foul Ball, the ball is dead and treated as foul ball. The batter will return to bat with a 1-2 count and still one out. (5-1-1h)" No, I most certainly did NOT make this up!!! Go to the FED website and see for yourself. http://www.nfhs.org/scriptcontent/va...Footer=BB_FOOT I believe this ruling clearly supports LDUB's assertion. So, under FED, we have R3's run nullified, R2 back at 2B and the batter back at the plate with a strike possibly added to his count. Or am I misreading this interpretation? (God, I sure hope so!!!) JM
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Wed May 18, 2005, 02:04pm
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WGYWB??
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Wed May 18, 2005, 02:09pm
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Hey Large,
WGYWB = What Game You Watchin Blue
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Wed May 18, 2005, 02:18pm
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Coach - you are not reading this wrong.
It's stupid, absurd, any number of similar adjectives... But this is Fed's interp this year. "Foul Ball!!!" equals DEAD ball, even if subsequently caught.
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Wed May 18, 2005, 02:48pm
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