Dropped strike three

[Carbide Keyman]

Just a question ? Should plate umpire indicate to the batter that on a dropped third strike he is not entitled to the run to first base if it is occupied ? I've always felt that it is not my job to instruct the batter, just make the right calls. There is no concensus among other umpires I've spoken to, some say telling batter he can't run is "preventative" umpiring, others say its coaching and not fair to either team. Thoughts ?????

[U_of_I_Blue]

"Strike Three, Batter's out". You've done enough telling there. The defense should know the situation.

[DG]

Originally posted by Carbide Keyman
Just a question ? Should plate umpire indicate to the batter that on a dropped third strike he is not entitled to the run to first base if it is occupied ? I've always felt that it is not my job to instruct the batter, just make the right calls. There is no concensus among other umpires I've spoken to, some say telling batter he can't run is "preventative" umpiring, others say its coaching and not fair to either team. Thoughts ?????

I just call it and signal it, "he's out". If he starts to 1B I say again only louder "he's out, he's out" and signal again. It's my job to signal outs when I see them. It is also preventive.

[mbyron]

The probability that I will say something to a batter is inversely proportional to his age.

That is, it depends on the level: I won't remind a "shaving-aged" batter that he's out, nor will I prevent such a catcher from making a pointless throw down to first. They need to know the rules.

You mention "preventive officiating," which is something I subscribe to for safety issues. I don't regard the batter taking off for first when he's not entitled to it as a saftey issue.

It might prevent an unpleasant visit from the O coach, if R1 gets picked off thinking he has to run, but then the coach should yell at R1. It might prevent an unpleasant visit from the D coach if his catcher throws the ball pointlessly into RF, but at that level chances are just as good that he'll yell at the catcher, not me.

But that's not what preventive officiating should be about. So what if they yell at me? *I* didn't screw up, so that conversation won't last long. Mistakes are part of the game, and it's not my job to prevent those, only to enforce the rules as tradition and local association dictate.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by DG

I just call it and signal it, "he's out". If he starts to 1B I say again only louder "he's out, he's out" and signal again. It's my job to signal outs when I see them. It is also preventive.

That is also what I do. "He's out. He's OUT!"

DG, what do you do for a dropped third strike when he can run?

[DG]

[/B][/QUOTE]DG, what do you do for a dropped third strike when he can run? [/B][/QUOTE]I call "strike" and signal a strike, and wait to see what happens next. If it was an almost checked swing I point at the batter, say "he went" and signal a strike and wait to see what happens next.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Carbide Keyman
Just a question ? Should plate umpire indicate to the batter that on a dropped third strike he is not entitled to the run to first base if it is occupied ? I've always felt that it is not my job to instruct the batter, just make the right calls. There is no concensus among other umpires I've spoken to, some say telling batter he can't run is "preventative" umpiring, others say its coaching and not fair to either team. Thoughts ?????

I'm the forum's odd man out on this one. I call the strike if the batter was not swinging or just signal the strike if he was. If the defense doesn't know the rule or the situation and chooses to make a play, that's part of the game.

Look at this way, when first is not occupied and the batter could run but doesn't, do you help the offense by telling the batter to run? Of course not. Similarly, I see no reason to protect the defense from their own stupidity.

I should add, I don't work little boy ball. If I did, I might think differently,

[Dave Hensley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB

I see no reason to protect the defense from their own stupidity.

How is calling an out protecting the defense from their own stupidity?

In the absence of a call in this situation, the defense may be perfectly smart, but they may have concern that the plate umpire is the "stupid" one, who may actually allow the batter to advance even though by rule he can't.

A simple "he's out" called only loud enough for F2 to hear it is all that is needed to keep the play, and possibly the game, from degenerating into a Keystone Cops skit.

[thumpferee]

On a swinging strike 3 when the batter can't run, I point at the batter, signal the out while yelling "batter's out, batter's out"!

If not swinging, and I hate when this happens, I will bang batter out, and then yell "batter's out, batter's out" if he begins to run.

9.99% of the time, if the catcher cannot catch a strike, it's a ball to me.

IMO, as PU, you bang out the batter and the ball ends up at the backstop, you look like a clown and not the catcher. And I'm gonna do it anymore!

[mcrowder]

We should not be directing play here. If you're normal call on a 3rd strike is "Strike Three! Batter's Out!", don't yell it extra times based on batter's actions.

[PeteBooth]

I'm the forum's odd man out on this one. I call the strike if the batter was not swinging or just signal the strike if he was. If the defense doesn't know the rule or the situation and chooses to make a play, that's part of the game.

I should add, I don't work little boy ball. If I did, I might think differently,

Garth, I've seen PROS run to first on a dropped third strike with 1st base occupied and less than 2 outs. Therefore, IMO, this question has nothing to do with the age of the players.

The umpire MUST be clear on this. By simply signally strike three, you have done nothing.

Do we have an out?, etc.

Even in the BIGS I've seen the PU call the batter out.

Pete Booth

[GarthB]

As I said, I realize that I am the odd man out here.

To answer one of the questioners, I never say "Strike three, he's out" on called strikes or swinging strikes. I say simply say "Strike three" on called strikes and signal on swinging strikes.

To answer another, when I said I don't do little boy ball, I didn't mean to imply that only they mistakenly ran to first. When I did mean to imply is that the older players should know better.

And finally, using exta mechanics to call attention to the batter running when he is "not supposed to" does protect the defense from making a play and possibly throwing the ball away and allowing other runners to advance or score. If they are that dumb, so be it.

All that said, yes I know judging from all you others my opinion is wrong. I have given it, I know it is not popular, I'll live.

[Tim C]

Not that odd.

I have never, nor would I ever, say "Batter's Out!" in games played by shaving aged players.

All players have the responsibility to understand rules and happenings on the field.

I simply signal the strike.

[GarthB]

"All players have the responsibility to understand rules and happenings on the field."

You'd think, wouldn't ya?

[akalsey]

I had a coach ask me on Saturday to please hurry my strike three calls so their batters would know to run to first base. I just looked at him a bit dumbfounded. I had no idea how to respond to that.