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Old Tue Jul 20, 2004, 02:43pm
EMD EMD is offline
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I have been told that my plate and field work is good, and I should move to college. HOWEVER, I do not have the experiance with all situations of baseballs. I think they are talking about what & how to deal with this situation or that. Fair enough, I am not arguing with them & completely agree. Heck, I've been umpiring HS ball for 3 years & now do local college recreation legues - so I understand there point. I have not seen it all, nor do I have a story of odd baseball plays to tell. Odd things seem not to happen to me while I am on the field, or if they do, I do not think much of them and do not remember. I hate when some other umpire starts telling stories like an old man talking about the fish that got away. (Hell, I guess that another thread by itself).

My question is simple, how do you get this type of experiance in umpiring, the only time a coach get on my *** is when he is right, & I did make a mistake. Or my partner tanked a call! Soooooooo, what to do to move up & how do you move up?

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Old Tue Jul 20, 2004, 03:17pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by EMD
I have been told that my plate and field work is good, and I should move to college. HOWEVER, I do not have the experiance with all situations of baseballs. I think they are talking about what & how to deal with this situation or that. Fair enough, I am not arguing with them & completely agree. Heck, I've been umpiring HS ball for 3 years & now do local college recreation legues - so I understand there point. I have not seen it all, nor do I have a story of odd baseball plays to tell. Odd things seem not to happen to me while I am on the field, or if they do, I do not think much of them and do not remember. I hate when some other umpire starts telling stories like an old man talking about the fish that got away. (Hell, I guess that another thread by itself).

My question is simple, how do you get this type of experiance in umpiring, the only time a coach get on my *** is when he is right, & I did make a mistake. Or my partner tanked a call! Soooooooo, what to do to move up & how do you move up?

Call the local college assignor or the local schools and ask to work some fall ball.
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Old Tue Jul 20, 2004, 03:27pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by EMD
I hate when some other umpire starts telling stories like an old man talking about the fish that got away. (Hell, I guess that another thread by itself).
Why, that is when you learn. I just was at a Football Clinic this past weekend. There were NFL, Big Ten, MAC and Gateway officials. I heard stories about pro players when they were in college, current NFL players and famous coaches all weekend. I learned that they make mistakes at the highest of levels as well. I love stories about guys from higher levels.


Quote:
Originally posted by EMD
My question is simple, how do you get this type of experiance in umpiring, the only time a coach get on my *** is when he is right, & I did make a mistake. Or my partner tanked a call! Soooooooo, what to do to move up & how do you move up?

What type of experience are you talking about?

No matter how much experience you have, there are going to still be a lot of things that you have not seen. We all had to start somewhere. There is nothing wrong with working college ball if you feel you are ready. Just understand that the intensity level will raise and the coaches and players will be a bit more savvy. So you have to know your rules and display more confidence on the field. But when we all work that "next level" (no matter what level that is) we have an adjustment period to get used to that level. There is nothing magic we can tell you because your experience is going to be based on the level you currently work and the people you work for.

Peace
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Old Tue Jul 20, 2004, 03:36pm
EMD EMD is offline
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Why, that is when you learn. I just was at a Football Clinic this past weekend. There were NFL, Big Ten, MAC and Gateway officials. I heard stories about pro players when they were in college, current NFL players and famous coaches all weekend. I learned that they make mistakes at the highest of levels as well. I love stories about guys from higher levels.


I like the storys from other umpires as well. I am tired of hearing the stories that make some guy sound like he is the Joe West of Umpires. It those story that get me.
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Old Tue Jul 20, 2004, 03:47pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by EMD

I like the storys from other umpires as well. I am tired of hearing the stories that make some guy sound like he is the Joe West of Umpires. It those story that get me.
Confused

Not sure I understand what you are talking about?

Peace
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Old Wed Jul 21, 2004, 09:44am
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Lightbulb

None of us are...

This is going to sound arrogant, but, if you are that good, you will be noticed. You will not have to ask to advance through the ranks. In an era where college and pro scouts scour the high school ball fields, you can make some nice contacts with these same people. It may be as innocent as one of them saying, "Nice job." or "Have you seen #23 much?". Open the door and realize that they talk about umpires and players. Keep in mind that there is a fine line between schmoozing and acknowledging a compliment. Try not to do it in front of your partner(s).

Does your organization offer college baseball? If not, is there one nearby? Rich's advice of calling an AD and offering to work any fall baseball is good advice, too. Find out who is working college level baseball in your area and ask how they broke in.

Best piece of advice I can offer...getting there is a lot easier than staying there. You need to step it up and be better than the others. Don't forget, you are taking someone's spot and there is someone waiting for yours.
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Old Wed Jul 21, 2004, 10:24am
EMD EMD is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
None of us are...

Best piece of advice I can offer...getting there is a lot easier than staying there. You need to step it up and be better than the others. Don't forget, you are taking someone's spot and there is someone waiting for yours.
I like that last comment & will keep it in mind. I am already speaking to some very good umpires in my area about how & when to move up. They keep suggesting to get situational experiance. I hope I can do this over the next few years.
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Old Wed Jul 21, 2004, 10:56am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
None of us are...

This is going to sound arrogant, but, if you are that good, you will be noticed. You will not have to ask to advance through the ranks. In an era where college and pro scouts scour the high school ball fields, you can make some nice contacts with these same people. It may be as innocent as one of them saying, "Nice job." or "Have you seen #23 much?". Open the door and realize that they talk about umpires and players. Keep in mind that there is a fine line between schmoozing and acknowledging a compliment. Try not to do it in front of your partner(s).
That is not totally true. For one you have to live in an area that has scouts and recruiters attend a lot of games. There is a reason you see guys in bigger cities advance and guys in the small rural areas do not at the same rate. So you can think you are going to get seen, and no one even knows you exist. And even in those larger areas, you need to be proactive and go out and show interest. That is why you need to call someone to see what it takes or how to get to that level. Especially in the game of baseball.

Peace
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 21, 2004, 11:00am
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Moving up is partly skill and partly opportunity. I have been reading on this forum about guys who ,after five years or more, are trying to get to the Varsity level.

I was doing college basketball games in my third year. Why? I was noticed as a guy with potential and our College Board was short.

An advantage about moving up is that your partners are more seasoned. Those weird situations that you have not experienced, they probably have.

Good luck.
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Old Wed Jul 21, 2004, 01:54pm
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Exclamation Point Clarified

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
That is not totally true. For one you have to live in an area that has scouts and recruiters attend a lot of games. There is a reason you see guys in bigger cities advance and guys in the small rural areas do not at the same rate. So you can think you are going to get seen, and no one even knows you exist. And even in those larger areas, you need to be proactive and go out and show interest. That is why you need to call someone to see what it takes or how to get to that level. Especially in the game of baseball.

Peace [/B]
This umpire has lived and worked in many areas of the country. I tecah clinics in four states and go to some pretty remote areas to do clinics. There is little question that talented officials exist in our smallest communities. The same goes for players - scouts and recruiters are in Holeinthewall, Montana more than he thinks. (The guy doesn't need to be weraing team colors from top to bottom and holding a radar gun!) The point Jeff misses, is that most colleges are in larger communities and you have to be close if you want to work the games. Yes, you need to be discovered - very few coaches will take a chance on an unknown entity. My suggestion that you contact other umpires was not lost on you, as it appears it was on Jeff. I still believe that most of my peers were noticed and asked to work the schedules we're given. In fact, I have received invitations to work in two other major college conferences because the games were scouted by the right people. Sometimes, being in the right spot is all it takes. I hope that is your luck.
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Old Wed Jul 21, 2004, 02:29pm
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Re: Point Clarified

Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue


This umpire has lived and worked in many areas of the country. I tecah clinics in four states and go to some pretty remote areas to do clinics. There is little question that talented officials exist in our smallest communities. The same goes for players - scouts and recruiters are in Holeinthewall, Montana more than he thinks. (The guy doesn't need to be weraing team colors from top to bottom and holding a radar gun!) The point Jeff misses, is that most colleges are in larger communities and you have to be close if you want to work the games. Yes, you need to be discovered - very few coaches will take a chance on an unknown entity. My suggestion that you contact other umpires was not lost on you, as it appears it was on Jeff. I still believe that most of my peers were noticed and asked to work the schedules we're given. In fact, I have received invitations to work in two other major college conferences because the games were scouted by the right people. Sometimes, being in the right spot is all it takes. I hope that is your luck.
Dude, what the heck are you talking about?

You are missing the point as usual. There are many rural areas that have no umpires that even have the opportunity to advance to a certain level. Of course umpires have to be close, but I do not know if working the Mid-Con is considered a high level of ball. And the umpires that I know work at one of the local D1 School only work that one school. They do not travel to work all the other teams in that conference. So what is your point?

My point is that you say you got an opportunity to work because a coach saw you. Well I do not know many D1 schools playing in the area that I started umpiring. And I do not know one D1 umpire (on a staff) that came from the area I used to live. Not one. I know guys that worked a couple of D1 games, but they are not traveling in other states to work other D1 games and conferences. This suggests that there is a reason you see certain officials coming from certain areas. There is a very good reason you see all the Big Ten Football Officials from a certain area in Illinois. There is a reason I see only D1 Basketball Officials come from a certain area in our state as well. You know so much, name one from the rural parts of Illinois that is on a staff. Then tell me why they are the only one and there is not a boat load of others behind them?

Opportunity is as much about geography as it is talent. You will never get picked if you live in an area where there is no "pipeline" coming from a particular area.

Peace
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Old Wed Jul 21, 2004, 04:04pm
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Lightbulb The whole world is watching!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Dude, what the heck are you talking about?

Are you the only one that can't follow along? EMD and the others seem to understand that I gave real advice and encouragement. I didn't think that was confusing.

You are missing the point as usual. There are many rural areas that have no umpires that even have the opportunity to advance to a certain level.

So what - he is interested in moving up and I gave him advice on how to do that.

Of course umpires have to be close, but I do not know if working the Mid-Con is considered a high level of ball.

Who works Mid-Con?

And the umpires that I know work at one of the local D1 School only work that one school. They do not travel to work all the other teams in that conference.

I work several major college conferences and do travel to multiple schools in each conference. I travel a lot and plan my business trips around my Spring schedule. I have three regular partners and all of them travel to multiple schools in each conference. So, I guess he can take the word of someone who knows or someone who guesses.


...you say you got an opportunity to work because a coach saw you. Well I do not know many D1 schools playing in the area that I started umpiring.

Again, we don't want to compare my talent with yours. My big break came after i finished three years in the Minors. I was working winter ball in Florida and a coach from the Midwest saw me and asked if I wanted some of his non-conference games. I agreed and made friends with the regular crews and assignor. I still work that school, even though the head coach has changed twice.

There is a very good reason you see all the Big Ten Football Officials from a certain area in Illinois. There is a reason I see only D1 Basketball Officials come from a certain area in our state as well.

When EMD wants to work college football or basketball, I'll tell him to move here. Until then, stay on the topic.


Opportunity is as much about geography as it is talent. You will never get picked if you live in an area where there is no "pipeline" coming from a particular area.

You are very wrong, Little Rut. I moved to the Chicago area long after I established myself. I grew up in another state and worked many ball games before I chose to go to Professional Umpiring School. I lived in several states and travel all over the country. My experience is what I speak from, not listening to other's stories and attending camps. My Rookie ball partner heralded from a town of 180 people in Kentucky. One of my AA partners was from a small town in Canada, not exactly Cooperstown.

My advice was solid, my opinion baseball based, positive and understood by the parties involved. The rest of this Board realizes that whenever you get flustered you mix up the facts and try to turn the dialogue to basketball and football. I prefer to stay on target and relate the facts. Good luck, but if I were you, I'd punt.
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Old Wed Jul 21, 2004, 04:44pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Re: The whole world is watching!

Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
You are very wrong, Little Rut. I moved to the Chicago area long after I established myself. I grew up in another state and worked many ball games before I chose to go to Professional Umpiring School. I lived in several states and travel all over the country. My experience is what I speak from, not listening to other's stories and attending camps. My Rookie ball partner heralded from a town of 180 people in Kentucky. One of my AA partners was from a small town in Canada, not exactly Cooperstown.
OK, whatever you say.

Quote:
Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
My advice was solid, my opinion baseball based, positive and understood by the parties involved. The rest of this Board realizes that whenever you get flustered you mix up the facts and try to turn the dialogue to basketball and football. I prefer to stay on target and relate the facts. Good luck, but if I were you, I'd punt.
No, I just am stating that talent is not the only thing you are judged by. Availability, talent and opportunity are all very important. Of course there is more, but these are at the top of my list. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you are never around a coach that anyone wants to listen to, you will not get that opportunity. If you are never around a fellow umpire that has worked that level, you might never see the opportunity. Of course you have to have talent, but you have to have someone that recognized it. And if all they see is a pitch or two, that does not mean they are going to put their career or opinion on the line because they think you are good. I know the assignor for Conference USA in Softball and he uses the information from other individuals to make many of his assignments. He has told people that he takes the advice from those that he trusts and might give them a chance. What if you never work in front of those guys that he trusts? I would think you do not work in that conference.

So yes, you can make this personal and try to call me names in your unprofessional way. All I am saying is that you need to be more than just talented to get opportunities. That is it and that is all. If you want to make this about me, do so. EMD or any umpire will not just get an opportunity if they sit on their hands and hope someone see them at some point. They still have to attend camps; they might just have to show interest. They also have to be given a shot in many cases without actually proving they can truly do the job. And my examples about the other sports are an illustration of how different baseball is. You will never get to the big time by hoping a coach will see you and they recommend you in the other sports.


Peace
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 21, 2004, 04:44pm
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Exclamation

EMD,
You seem to have understood what I was trying to say.
Like anything else in life, when you watch and talk to veterans, you can learn a lot. You can see here that some advice is good, make up your mind which you believe.

Keep your goals realistic, don't give up and pass on what you've learned when it is time. Some day you'll be the old guy that everyone wants to be like.

WCB
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