Chicago

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
GregR072 -
Brian's right. Check out both groups.
No one group is for everybody.

Besides, you make like driving a long way for underlevel games.

I'm not a baseball umpire. Useta be many years ago. I still do football and basketball. I am a baseball fan however, so I read this forum too to try and kinda keep current of the rules-mostly OBR.

Just an observation. We are all supposed to be members of the Fraterity of Officials. Why do you insist on denigrating another group of officials at the same time that you are trying to promote your own group? Not very professional at all, imo. I've always been kind of leary of people or groups that use this tactic.

As I said, it's just an observation. Take it for what you think it's worth. Or not worth.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I did read the FVB site, entirely. (They should change their password, since one of my friends let's me use his.)
While your talent will get you playoff assignments, if you are working crap ball in the sticks, you won't get seen as easily. Jeff received his first baseball playoff game this year with the IHSA. So did, 18 Registered and 22 recognized officials throughout the state. By the way, when was the last time that an umpire was assigned beyong the Sectionals, that was independent and lived in the Chicago area?

No, Jeff got his first IHSA assigned Baseball playoff and 5th total assignment between all the sports. This was my first since I reapplied in baseball. The Regional level used to be assigned by assignors and schools about 5 years ago. They changed that and this was my first since I reapplied for a baseball license.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
By the way, when was the last time that an umpire was assigned beyong the Sectionals, that was independent and lived in the Chicago area?

Who cares? I do not know the answer to this and it is not relevant to the individual that asked the question. He is looking to join an association, not make the State Finals next year. If he lives in Evanston, going to some of those schools that UMPS has might be far as well. Not sure I would want to travel from where I live to near Evanston on a regular basis.

If you want to pump up UMPS, that is your right. But this is not about any one organization. He could belong to many if he wants to. Others do it and they are on this board. Bob is a member of multiple organizations. I am a member of multiple organizations. Dave Alstadt (AOA Bastball Board President) is a member of multiple organizations. Bob Copas(worked the Class AA State Finals) is a member of multiple organizations. We all choose the ones that works for us and we work the season.

Peace

[Jerry]

Anyone in the Chicago or Cleveland area . . . check out "www.wbua.org" for possibilities in "Women's Baseball". I believe Chicago plays near Lincolnshire.

You can also check out "www.detroitdanger.com" for more info.

Jerry

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee


Just an observation. We are all supposed to be members of the Fraterity of Officials. Why do you insist on denigrating another group of officials at the same time that you are trying to promote your own group? Not very professional at all, imo. I've always been kind of leary of people or groups that use this tactic.

As I said, it's just an observation. Take it for what you think it's worth. Or not worth.

Exactly.

I am a member of about 5 or 6 organizations or divisions. When I moved here about 5 years ago, I joined the groups that I personally got something out of. Some of it was based on geography. Some of it was based wanting to improve to a certain level. Some of it was to just make more contacts than I already have. Those choices were personal to me and at the end of the day, I do not care what others think about my decisions. All an organization is going to do for you in the Chicago area, is add to your contacts. You still have to perform on the field or gain the respect of the coaches and fellow officials by working great games. Just join an association that you are happy with it and stick with them. If you do not like that organization, join another one. It is like dating a girl, some dates are great and you want to continue the relationship. Other dates are horrible and you never want to see them again. Contact all of the organizations. Attend some of the meetings. Talk to the assignors and pick one (or two). I am not the one that is going to know when you get off of work or know how much time you need to spend at home with your wife and children.

Peace

[brian43]

like JRutledge said, being a part of more than one might not be a bad idea. he mentioned dave alstadt, who is a part of FVB, does his AOA thing, and im sure he does other stuff as well. he was one of the instructors at a winter clinic i was at and hes a pretty sharp guy. he was assigned to the class A state finals as well i believe.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by brian43
like JRutledge said, being a part of more than one might not be a bad idea. he mentioned dave alstadt, who is a part of FVB, does his AOA thing, and im sure he does other stuff as well. he was one of the instructors at a winter clinic i was at and hes a pretty sharp guy. he was assigned to the class A state finals as well i believe.

Bob Copus is and AOA and UMPS guy. He was the President before Dave. I was the Vice-President when Bob was at that position. Bob recieved a Class AA State Finals. Bob Jenkins is an AOA, FVB and UMPS guy. He has done multiple Sectionals and is a moderator here. Bob J. is currently our Vice President. Tim Kiefer who is the webmaster of the AOA and IACAO and worked with me at the JUCO All-Star game (in the middle of the picture) and is an AOA and UMPS member. He recieved his first playoff game this year as well. And finally Dave Alstadt is a IHSA Baseball Clinician and a D1 Umpire. And the AOA is one of the few organizations that do not assign anything league and we like it that way. We just want to teach and anyone is welcome to join. So being a member of more than one organization is rather common.

Find a group you like, and pay the dues. It really is not that difficult to figure out.

Peace

[brian43]

well said, very well said.

before the thread gets back to useless bickering, maybe it should be closed.

FVB is good, UMPS is good, ice cream is good, the cubs are good. its all good.

[WindyCityBlue]

Bob Copus is and AOA and UMPS guy. He was the President before Dave.

He gets his baseball schedule from UMPS, though.

Bob Jenkins is an AOA, FVB and UMPS guy. He has done multiple Sectionals and is a moderator here. Bob J. is currently our Vice President.

Believe it or not, I've worked with him. He's a pretty good umpire.

Tim Kiefer who is the webmaster of the AOA and IACAO and worked with me at the JUCO All-Star game (in the middle of the picture) and is an AOA and UMPS member. He recieved his first playoff game this year as well.

Does AOA assign Tim's high school baseball games?

And finally Dave Alstadt is a IHSA Baseball Clinician and a D1 Umpire.
Another good guy and pretty good umpire. Doe she get his games from FVB or AOA? Did you read the post where FVB9 told you to shut up? Apparently he doesn't need or want your help with FVB.

So, I guess the bottom line is what can my organization do for me that I can't do myself? The Chicago area has conferences that contract for all of their schools in that particular sport. Since these conferences only work with 2 or three associations, you need to find one that is convenient to where you live and work, gives you the best games for your ability and provides the support you'll need to get recognized. FVB does this well for the far Northwest suburbs. UMPS does it very well in the near north and western suburbs. Since we also handle a few City schools, we have a pretty large area of dominance.
To Jurassic Ump: Recruiting and retention is what association do. If you have never sat on a Board and had the responsibility of procuring new officials because more schools want your group, then you wouldn't understand. UMPS is the biggest, oldest and most accomplished umpires group in Illinois. Our reputation for producing the best involves turning over every stone looking for the next diamond. It also involves reminding others of why we have a better product. If that disturbs you, then you shouldn't watch TV for the next few months. The election will probably kill you.

Find a group you like, and pay the dues. It really is not that difficult to figure out.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue

To Jurassic Ump: Recruiting and retention is what association do. If you have never sat on a Board and had the responsibility of procuring new officials because more schools want your group, then you wouldn't understand. UMPS is the biggest, oldest and most accomplished umpires group in Illinois. Our reputation for producing the best involves turning over every stone looking for the next diamond. It also involves reminding others of why we have a better product. If that disturbs you, then you shouldn't watch TV for the next few months. The election will probably kill you.

Well, WBC, I just mighta had a little experience in recruiting, training, assigning, retention, etc. in other sports over the years. Not that anyone here basically gives a sh*t anyway. It certainly doesn't make my opinion of any greater validity or any less valid than anybody else that posts here. However, I still would never dream of trying to push my own association while I was simultaneously flaming or denigrating other associations. Or members of those other associations either. I just personally find it very unprofessional for any official in any sport to run down other officials' groups, especially competing ones. We get enough crap from coaches and fans without having to worry about turning our back on one of our so-called "own".

All I gave you was my opinion. Obviously you don't agree with it. And equally obviously "professionalism" isn't really a concern of yours either. That's fine. I'm certainly not representing my opinion as actually being "fact". I was kinda wondering why you are so adamantly representing YOUR opinion as being fact though. I think that I got my answer. Carry on with what you were doing. I won't bother you again.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, WBC, I just mighta had a little experience in recruiting, training, assigning, retention, etc. in other sports over the years. Not that anyone here basically gives a sh*t anyway. It certainly doesn't make my opinion of any greater validity or any less valid than anybody else that posts here. However, I still would never dream of trying to push my own association while I was simultaneously flaming or denigrating other associations. Or members of those other associations either. I just personally find it very unprofessional for any official in any sport to run down other officials' groups, especially competing ones. We get enough crap from coaches and fans without having to worry about turning our back on one of our so-called "own".

All I gave you was my opinion. Obviously you don't agree with it. And equally obviously "professionalism" isn't really a concern of yours either. That's fine. I'm certainly not representing my opinion as actually being "fact". I was kinda wondering why you are so adamantly representing YOUR opinion as being fact though. I think that I got my answer. Carry on with what you were doing. I won't bother you again.

Very well said JR. Very well said!!!

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

Why are you compelled to answer a question posed DIRECTLY to someone else?

Secondly, I promote my group because that is called recruiting. You promote AOA and IACAO (Lord knows, you include links every chance you get). So, if I have this right, it's okay for you to promote your affiliations, but I can't.

You commented that there is a problem with conferences wanting one assignor to deal with instead of using independents or mixing associations. Why is that a problem? Because you can't get those schools, maybe. Our AD's required it, they don't have the time or energy to make the hundreds of phone calls when it rains. (Not a problem in most every other sport!) They want continuity and accountability. I guess we must be doing it well, because they keep coming back.

Don't give me any B.S. about not being biased against my group, either. Several times you've posted about FVB and AOA when a rookie has a question. You said your not affiliated with them, yet you've accepted games from Jeff. So is that a lie? By the way, you never answered the question...does AOA assign high school baseball games? Is that how you can claim that Tim Kiefer and Bob Copas are AOA first - because of their heavy AOA schedules?

[WindyCityBlue]

Not so fast Jurassic Referee...

However, I still would never dream of trying to push my own association while I was simultaneously flaming or denigrating other associations. Or members of those other associations either.

What kind of PollyAnna world do you live in? Only say good things when speaking of others? Only promote your group through positive statements?

I just personally find it very unprofessional for any official in any sport to run down other officials' groups, especially competing ones. We get enough crap from coaches and fans without having to worry about turning our back on one of our so-called "own".

As unprofessional as, say, ripping another official for having an opinion. Do as I say, not as I do. Maybe you're just intolerant of others that disagree with your opinion.

I was kinda wondering why you are so adamantly representing YOUR opinion as being fact though.

Wow, backing up my opinions with facts. Like our history or current accomplishments or directing someone to my website or pointing out that if you live in Evanston, the closest FVB game is over thirty miles away - stuff like that???

I won't bother you again.
Stop teasing.

[brian43]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Secondly, I promote my group because that is called recruiting. You promote AOA and IACAO (Lord knows, you include links every chance you get). So, if I have this right, it's okay for you to promote your affiliations, but I can't.

its called a signature. put the UMPS link in your sig and it will show up on every post and thousands of people will see it daily.

free advertising/recruiting and all you have to do is post.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue


Why are you compelled to answer a question posed DIRECTLY to someone else?

Secondly, I promote my group because that is called recruiting. You promote AOA and IACAO (Lord knows, you include links every chance you get). So, if I have this right, it's okay for you to promote your affiliations, but I can't.

I do not just belong to the AOA, FVFO, COA and Far West Basketball Officials Member. I also belong to FVB, but just recently. I post the link to the AOA because it is a very good and interactive site. There is always new information put on that site. The COA does not have a very good site right now, but that is being worked on. IACAO is promoted by all thosse organizations I mentioned. And really the best site to learn about all groups. I just might post the other links if it makes you happy. Also, at the IACAO website, there are links to all groups that have a website and contact information to all individuals associated with those groups.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
You commented that there is a problem with conferences wanting one assignor to deal with instead of using independents or mixing associations. Why is that a problem? Because you can't get those schools, maybe.

It is a problem because of people like you. All you seem to be worried about is what school you belong to your group, rather than giving the games to people that want to work the conference. It works well in the many other sports. They hire the best at all levels, not just people from one organization.

And on a personal note, I try not to do as much traveling all over the area for baseball. It is not an issue to do that once a week during the football season or just on the weekends. It is also quite another thing to have to get to a site at 7:00 or 7:30 during the football and basketball seasons. I mainly work a conference that has no ties to any association and it works out well for me. Someone needs to realize that everyone does not have your priorities.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Because you can't get those schools, maybe. Our AD's required it, they don't have the time or energy to make the hundreds of phone calls when it rains. (Not a problem in most every other sport!) They want continuity and accountability. I guess we must be doing it well, because they keep coming back.

No, they can hire an assignor like they do in every other sport and the assignor can hire who they want to. Not hire people based on who pays dues to a particular organization. Hell, the football assignor work very well together in our area and hire folks from all over the area.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Don't give me any B.S. about not being biased against my group, either. Several times you've posted about FVB and AOA when a rookie has a question. You said your not affiliated with them, yet you've accepted games from Jeff. So is that a lie?

I have problems with the system and have been in IACAO meetings and said so. I have also been at AOA meetings and said so. I have worked for the past 3 years some games for the assignor of FVB. I just decided to join this year. Why, because a few of the schools are right in the area in which I live. But I had over 40 games a year not being a member of your group or FVB. I was just an AOA member.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
By the way, you never answered the question...does AOA assign high school baseball games? Is that how you can claim that Tim Kiefer and Bob Copas are AOA first - because of their heavy AOA schedules?

No. We do not want to assign games. That is not the mission of our group and is the reason the AOA and many changed our mission statement to not put ourselves in legal issues like another group in our area. And the AOA was not the only one that did that. They did it in the COA and we have even backed off as FVFO members to not tie ourselves to a conference. And I will not mention names, but there are individuals that work for UMPS, but work other games as well. That is there choice and a personal decision.

You come here are run your mouth so much, but it is very clear you are clueless about how assigning is done in other sports. Because I work in the very same conferences that UMPS assigns and the assignors do not assign by association. They assign them by crews or who attends the camps to get evaluated. It works well in other sports, why is this a problem in baseball?

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue

What kind of PollyAnna world do you live in? Only say good things when speaking of others? Only promote your group through positive statements?

Yeah, I do try to stay positive of ALL officials' groups in all sports, while also recognizing that ALL officials' groups are composed of good, average, and maybe some other officials that really shouldn't be there. I also don't believe in back-stabbing as a means of promoting any one particular group over another group. Call me Pollyanna for that if you want to. Kind of a compliment really, I think. But as I said before, that's just my opinion, and my opinion only. I don't have any axe to really grind with anyone in this particular argument, being hundreds of miles away from Chicago and not knowing any of the local antagonists. I was just kinda surprised to see your almost unique way of promoting your group over others. Please carry on promoting your group as you see fit.

Btw, not that you are probably interested, but I also never base my opinion of any group on the actions of any one particular member of that group either.