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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 05, 2004, 11:07am
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In my opinion, THE PARENTS/FAMILY/FRIENDS of the team ARE CLEARLY NOT the responsibility of the coach.

I don't have a problem with an umpire asking a coach to attempt to quiet his fans, but anything beyond that is rediculous.

The coach is out there to direct players, not be a moderator of the stands. Technically, they are to stay in the dugout/bullpen/field area during game time anyway.

I have heard of umpires ejecting coaches due to the heckling of their spectators. This is ludacris.

If the parents get out of control, what I would do is step in front of the plate, and treat it in the same way I would if an ejected player/coach failed to leave the premises within a reasonable time period.... I would suspend the game depending on the severity, and speak with a league representative.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 05, 2004, 11:47am
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I found this situation is best

If the fan is out of hand, Call Time, instruct both teams to tier dugouts. Speak with the offensive fans team coach to see if he can deal with it. Make it plain the game will not begin again untill the fan is removed. If the coach can't deal wit the fan, the kids and other parents will finally turn on the fan and get him to leave, they all want to watch the kids play.

P.S. They will begin by yelling at the ump -- Were not here to see you ... if hey are not switching sides quick enough remindthem that the fan is stopping hem from watching the kids not you.

It works and usually takes only 5 min or so of time. In this instance you will rarely have a problem with the fans of either team for the remaineder of the season.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 05, 2004, 12:20pm
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Re: I found this situation is best

Quote:
Originally posted by 3appleshigh
If the fan is out of hand, Call Time, instruct both teams to tier dugouts. Speak with the offensive fans team coach to see if he can deal with it. Make it plain the game will not begin again untill the fan is removed. If the coach can't deal wit the fan, the kids and other parents will finally turn on the fan and get him to leave, they all want to watch the kids play.

P.S. They will begin by yelling at the ump -- Were not here to see you ... if hey are not switching sides quick enough remindthem that the fan is stopping hem from watching the kids not you.

It works and usually takes only 5 min or so of time. In this instance you will rarely have a problem with the fans of either team for the remaineder of the season.
Exactly, that's what I was getting at with suspending the game.

It doesn't have to be for long, it can be temporary... like 3ah said, it will shut the parents up, as they will finally realize that they are hurting the kids.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 05, 2004, 01:05pm
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Not that I would do this, but if it really came down to it, you could eject the spectator under 9.01c. In the league I ump, there is a bylaw that says I can eject a spectator if I think he is distracting the players. But that isn't everywhere, so I would just suspend time until the person shuts up or leaves.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 05, 2004, 03:49pm
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heckeling

heckeling is a leauge by leauge solution ie: in my leauge heckeling a play coach or umpire results in parent and coach ejection from present game, and parent suspension from next two schedualed games. and the coach is responsable for his fans behavior. in geneneral moast coaches will take an umpires request seriously and take care of the offending individual. other leauges i have called for (including LL) have variations of this in leauge rules many prohibite ejection of spectators except in cases of threats or actual use of violence.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 05, 2004, 09:41pm
DG DG is offline
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When I coached, you can bet your a** that I felt responsible for the bahaviour of my fans, especially the parents, relatives and friends of my players, and they all knew it. So I never had to say much to get one of my fans to stop being an a**. I never had any reservations about discussing the behaviour of the other team's fans with the opposing coach either.

Now as an umpire, I would expect the coach to handle it, and I would tell him so. I have also asked a heckler to leave. I can't call it an ejection, but the result is the same.

If the coach makes an effort and it does not work then league commissioner or other on site person in charge needs to be summoned, while we all stand around and wait. If the heckler is cussing and will not leave then call the cops. They will be happy to remove him. If the guy is just a drunk that showed up and has no affiliation with either team this may be what it takes. Otherwise, the coach should handle it.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 05, 2004, 10:32pm
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If I suspend play and the guy doesn't leave, can I forfeit the game, or do I have to call the cops? -John
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 05, 2004, 11:03pm
DG DG is offline
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So this does not get out of hand, let me review. This is a LL game, and parent from one team is heckling the coach from the other team. The coach of the team with the heckling parent shall handle this. Note this is a shall not a should. I expect him to handle it will tell him so. Game is delayed until it is handled. If he ignores my request toss him and aske the assistant to deal with it. If the manager can not get a parent from his team to stop then the parent does not have any respect for the coach, and it's time for league officials to be summoned and lastly the cops.

Foreiting a game is last resort. If the manager can't get it stopped, and assistant manager can't get it stopped, and 2nd assitant manager can't get it stopped, and no league officials on-site, and cops are busy, and the other fans and parents have not whupped his a** yet, then forfeit the game.

If I was the coach and I could not get him to shut up, I would tell him to take his son home and don't come back. I would call the cops myself.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 06, 2004, 08:22am
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Quote:
Originally posted by umpguy2190
If I suspend play and the guy doesn't leave, can I forfeit the game, or do I have to call the cops? -John
Just tell the coaches that the game can't be completed now, and leave the resolution (forfeit or continuation) up to the board.

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 06, 2004, 09:26am
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Originally posted by LMan

Hello, I am a LL ump and would like to ask a question if I may:

In a recent game, one team's pitcher has a number of nervous mannerisms, including bringing his pitching hand to his mouth (wiping his mouth w the back of his hand) while near the rubber..the opposing manager complained and the plate ump warned the pitcher several times.....in my judgement the complaint was valid every time.

...the real issue was that a parent of the pitcher's team (in the bleachers) was very belligerent and kept loudly catcalling the other manager for complaining, telling him to 'shut up and get back in the dugout' 'why dont you manage your lousy team and leave our kids alone' , etc. This went on for a while, and no one, including the plate ump, ever warned him or mentioned it otherwise. It was very loud, persistent, and embarrassing, although the guy didnt use profanity, as far as I know. I thought it was a terrible example for the kids.

My question is, is there a provision for the ump to warn/eject the spectator about this if it continues for a long while (ie, after 'the heat of the moment')? I know heckling is as much a part of the game as anything else, but that's more at the professional levels, so are the umps at this level required to put up with constant heckling of this type from one team's spectators to the other team?

Just looking for opinions, or where I am off-base. Thanks in advance!


Spectators are not your problem. Since you said LL, a BOD member should be on "duty" and the BOD member should take care of this fan. Sounds like you had no BOD member available or have a weak BOD which is another problem altogether.

Here's the statement I have trouble with from your thread.

including bringing his pitching hand to his mouth (wiping his mouth w the back of his hand) while near the rubber..the opposing manager complained and the plate ump warned the pitcher several times.....in my judgement the complaint was valid every time.

You said LL. Is it LL Majors , Juniors, Seniors etc. If it's LL majors do not worry about it. If the coach keeps coming out, CALL TIME take out your line-up card and get "your point across" something like Coach that's enough etc. Do not threaten but make it known you will NOT tolerate any more complaints. If it happens again it's "Skip have a nice day"

If the game is played by kids who shave and you see F1 doing this, do some preventative umpiring like call TIME, pretend you are cleaning the plate off and tell F2 to talk to his F1.

You do not give multiple warnings. After you do your "due deligence", then enforce the rule.

Now what to do with this spectator.

HS - Talk to the coach and perhaps he can help out. If you are lucky enough to have any type of security around (very rare at a HS game), tell the coach to have security escort this person out or we are stopping right here.

LL - See if you can get a BOD member which from your thread sounds as though no BOD member was present. In that case STOP game at that point and refer to BOD and go home.

Bottom Line - CONTROL the game. You cannot allow a manager to constantly challenge your ruling and keep coming out of the dugout as ultimately the Fans will also get involved. You "nip the coach problem in the bud" and chances are you will not have a spectator problem as well.

Pete Booth
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 07, 2004, 01:20am
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DG,

If you're umpiring LL games, you cannot require a manager to control spectators, and you have no authority to forfeit a game because of it. You will lose the protest that will be filed. LL issued new guidelines last year on how to handle these situation. Ask your UiC about them.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 08, 2004, 12:20am
DG DG is offline
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I don't do LL, never have. There is not much LL in my area. I know very little about LL rules. And thank goodness I don't, if LL does not expect a manager to have some control over his fans.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 08, 2004, 11:28am
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Exclamation

"I don't do LL, never have. There is not much LL in my area. I know very little about LL rules. And thank goodness I don't, if LL does not expect a manager to have some control over his fans."

Then why are are you offering advice on how to handle a Little League situation?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 08, 2004, 09:32pm
DG DG is offline
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Excuse me! I missed that point in the original post and got wrapped up in the larger subject of fan misbehaviour. I will not post for LL questions anymore.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 09, 2004, 09:19am
gxc gxc is offline
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Heckling Fans

PeteBooth,
Valid points about handling coaches, but the original post was about dealing with unruly fans.
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