The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 12:53pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,803
NFHS Rules: Twoo outs, bases loaded, uncaught third strike.

The title gives the situation.

Question: F2 fields the uncaught third strike and forgets that all he has to do is touch HP for the third out and instead throws to F3 at 1B to retire the B/R who is running to 1B. F2 airmails his throw to F3 into Right Field. During F2's throw to F3 he unknowingly steps on HP while still in possession of the Ball. Do we have a tied out at HP or a Live Ball?

This play did not happen to Mark, Jr. or me but came up during a war story discussion. Mark and I would also like opinions per NCAA and OBR. I am watching Mark umpire right now and really do nor feel like hiking back to the car to check caebook plays but do believe it will make for a good discussion.

Thank you in advance.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Ump. Assn.
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 01:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Eastern Connecticut
Posts: 137
I would say, yes, the runner coming from 3rd is out. Motive is irrelevant. He stepped on the plate while in possession of the ball and the force play is invoked at that instant. Trying to read motives is a slippery slope anyway... This is the 3rd out and the inning is over.

NFHS 8-4-2-j
The runner is out when he fails to reach the next base before a fielder either tags the runner out or holds the ball while touching such base, after runner has been forced from the base he occupied because the batter became a runner (with ball in play) when other runners were on first base, or on first and second, or on first, second and third. There shall be no accidental appeals on a force play.


Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Last edited by Mbilica; Sun Apr 09, 2017 at 01:09pm.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 01:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,267
Yes, it's an out. While there are no "accidental appeals" there can be "accidental force outs."
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 01:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Eastern Connecticut
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Yes, it's an out. While there are no "accidental appeals" there can be "accidental force outs."
Good point

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 02:12pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,803
What prompted the start of this thread was I was watching the replay of a VAR baseball game on our cable company's local sports channel and F2 did NOT touch HP while airmaIing his throw over F3's head into Right Field. F9 fielded F2's errant throw and proceeded to throw the ball over F5's head into Dead Ball territory with the runner that had started on 1B between 2B and 3B, and the B/R between 2B and 3B.

I want you all to sit down before reading anyour further. The umpires (2-man crew) huddled and decided that the Batter was out because 1B was occupied!

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Ump. Assn.
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 06:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
What prompted the start of this thread was I was watching the replay of a VAR baseball game on our cable company's local sports channel and F2 did NOT touch HP while airmaIing his throw over F3's head into Right Field. F9 fielded F2's errant throw and proceeded to throw the ball over F5's head into Dead Ball territory with the runner that had started on 1B between 2B and 3B, and the B/R between 2B and 3B.

I want you all to sit down before reading anyour further. The umpires (2-man crew) huddled and decided that the Batter was out because 1B was occupied!

MTD, Sr.
And no protest?
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 06:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
And no protest?
Most (?) states do not allow protests of HS games.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 06:34pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Most (?) states do not allow protests of HS games.

The OhioHSAA and the MichiganHSAA (the two states that Mark, Jr., are registered in) do not allow protests.

As F2 was attempting to throw the B/R out at 1B the "talking heads" were claiming that the Batter was out because 1B was occupied (what the hell do they know about the rules). The "talking heads" then claimed that the umpires were going to huddle which they did from what I could see and the channel then cut to a commercial. When it came back to the game the "talking heads" said the that the umpires had ruled that the Batter was out. They only way per rule the Batter could be out is if F2 inadvertently stepped on HP before releasing the ball on his throw to F3. The video did not have a good look at whether F2 stepped on or did not step on HP when he made his throw but the umpires allowed the runners run the bases and the fielders make plays on the runners.

I have talked with our assigner and he was going to review the game tape. I told him that I would gladly be corrected if F2 had stepped on HP and the video did not show it.

The irony is that last year the local sports channel showed VAR softball game where the PU awarded the batter 1B after striking out because the pitch hit her while she was swinging at the ball. The bad part was that the sports channel kept its camera and mic on the PU and the defensive coach as the PU told the DC why the batter was being awarded 1B. And our assigner was watching the game on TV.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Ump. Assn.
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio

Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Sun Apr 09, 2017 at 06:52pm. Reason: Added a couple of paragraphs.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 07:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 185
Whenever I am the PU and this situation exists I always look for the catcher to step on the plate, even inadvertently.
As someone already states an appeal has to be obvious and intentional but not so with a force out.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 09:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Most (?) states do not allow protests of HS games.
Even a "within the game" protest as opposed to an "up the chain" protest? There's no way to force a look at the rule book?
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 09, 2017, 10:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Even a "within the game" protest as opposed to an "up the chain" protest? There's no way to force a look at the rule book?
That would be allowed in 10-1-4 and should be addressed. It won't force a look at the rulebook but it should cause two umps together to talk about the rule. Recent communications from my state cause me concern about two umps getting it right. But, in my state the remedy is a rule missaplication report to the state authority. Then if correct, which most are not, the umpire chapter involved deals with correcting the involved umpires. I don't know how that works.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 10, 2017, 04:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 108
Send a message via Yahoo to rcaverly
Perhaps the BR was ruled out on a RLI violation despite the drivel from the "talking heads."
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 10, 2017, 09:21am
Moderator M-800
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
They only way per rule the Batter could be out is if F2 inadvertently stepped on HP before releasing the ball on his throw to F3.
I'm going to give you a minute to think about this sentence and decide whether to delete it or fix it.

__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 10, 2017, 09:41am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Even a "within the game" protest as opposed to an "up the chain" protest? There's no way to force a look at the rule book?
There's no way to force it, no. No protests here in WI, either.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 10, 2017, 12:10pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcaverly View Post
Perhaps the BR was ruled out on a RLI violation despite the drivel from the "talking heads."
This is the same question I have. It very well could have been RLI since Fed does not require a quality throw.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
bases loaded walk CecilOne Softball 17 Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:00pm
Bases Loaded 2 outs Full Count Play onetime1 Baseball 23 Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:59am
Bases Loaded Walk... mightymoose_22 Baseball 37 Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:05pm
Bases Loaded... mrm21711 Baseball 5 Mon May 29, 2006 05:09pm
bases loaded dropped third strike zebraman55 Softball 2 Fri Jun 08, 2001 12:49pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:15pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1