FED coach ejected (only coach)

[David Emerling]

Per rule, an ejected coach is required to leave the vicinity and have no contact with his players.

What if he was the only coach?

Can high school players be permitted to continue the game coachless?

Can a parent come forward and coach the team from the dugout? Can a school administrator who happened to be at the field coach the team from the dugout? (I say "from the dugout" because it is highly unlikely they will be in uniform.)

[bob jenkins]

Some (much) of this would depend on the state.

A parent is unlikely to meet the requirements.

A school administrator might.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Some (much) of this would depend on the state.

A parent is unlikely to meet the requirements.

A school administrator might.

That seems reasonable. However, if no adult (of any kind) steps forward - would the game be a forfeit or simply suspended? Is there any rule that specifically prohibits the players from continuing without a coach? (Which would probably go smoother)

Again - it's probably a state-by-state issue.

Thanks!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

That seems reasonable. However, if no adult (of any kind) steps forward - would the game be a forfeit or simply suspended? Is there any rule that specifically prohibits the players from continuing without a coach? (Which would probably go smoother)

Again - it's probably a state-by-state issue.

Thanks!

It's very likely that an adult "coach" of some kind is needed. I would suspend and let the league / state deal with the rest of the consequences.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

That seems reasonable. However, if no adult (of any kind) steps forward - would the game be a forfeit or simply suspended? Is there any rule that specifically prohibits the players from continuing without a coach? (Which would probably go smoother)

Again - it's probably a state-by-state issue.

Thanks!

Umpires do not forfeit games. Umpires suspend games. Leagues / TD's forfeit games.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Umpires do not forfeit games. Umpires suspend games. Leagues / TD's forfeit games.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I imagine there can be some unclear situation that is would cause the umpire to "suspend" the game and allow higher authorities to make a final determination as to whether the game is a forfeit or a suspension.

However, I think there are several, very clear provisions in the rule book by which the umpire can categorically declare a forfeit.

(FED) How about: "A game shall be forfeited to the offended team by the umpire when a team is unable to provide at least nine players to start the game or cannot provide eight players to finish the game"?

or "A game shall be forfeited to the offended team by the umpire when a team willfully and persistently violates any of the rules after being warned by the umpire"?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

I'm not sure I agree with that. I imagine there can be some unclear situation that is would cause the umpire to "suspend" the game and allow higher authorities to make a final determination as to whether the game is a forfeit or a suspension.

However, I think there are several, very clear provisions in the rule book by which the umpire can categorically declare a forfeit.

(FED) How about: "A game shall be forfeited to the offended team by the umpire when a team is unable to provide at least nine players to start the game or cannot provide eight players to finish the game"?

or "A game shall be forfeited to the offended team by the umpire when a team willfully and persistently violates any of the rules after being warned by the umpire"?

Still suspend. Let the league confirm the forfeit.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Matt

Still suspend. Let the league confirm the forfeit.

How do you confirm that a team didn't have 9 players to start or couldn't finish with 8? How do you confirm that a team willfully violated the rules? You ask the umpire! ... who was the one that made the observation in the first place.

In our area, the umpires have the authority to declare a forfeit - especially if it's a black and white rule like I've already mentioned. There's nothing to deliberate about.

The only time we hesitate is if a team is having a transportation issue and can't get the required players there on time at game time. We have a local policy that we give them up to 30 minutes from scheduled game time before declaring a forfeit unless the home team coach decides to wave that restriction and give them up to an hour. I've had coaches want to give the visitors more time, preferring to play the game than win on a forfeit.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

How do you confirm that a team didn't have 9 players to start or couldn't finish with 8? How do you confirm that a team willfully violated the rules? You ask the umpire! ... who was the one that made the observation in the first place.

In our area, the umpires have the authority to declare a forfeit - especially if it's a black and white rule like I've already mentioned. There's nothing to deliberate about.

Try forfeiting a game, and then see what happens.

If you suspend it, then the worst thing that happens is that your judgment is upheld. If you forfeit, and you get overruled (and I saw this happen in a fairly well-known league last year on the second example you show,) then you have ****ed yourself.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Matt

Try forfeiting a game, and then see what happens.

Well, I have done it - on several occasions. In each case, it was because the visiting team didn't show up or didn't have sufficient players. I tell the home team coach that it is a forfeit and it should be officially entered as a 7-0 win.

No incident report. No forms to fill-out. No paperwork, whatsoever. I received no phone call from my assignor. The forfeiting school made no objection. There was no inquiry by the administrators of the Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association, the governing body for all high school sports in my state.

That's what happened.

[David Emerling]

What I have done, however - more along the lines that you are suggesting - is allow the state association to decide a matter under dispute regarding a player's eligibility to play.

On two different occasions in my high school umpiring career, I've had one manager object to the participation of an opposing player. In one case, the coach claimed that the player was illegally enrolled in the school because he was out of the school's district. In another case, the coach claimed that the player had been ejected in a previous game and should be serving a suspension.

I noted the objection and made that known to the other coach. I then ordered the game to be played and that the matter would be forwarded to the state association for resolution. I also said that, for the purposes of the game, I would consider all players in the line-up to be eligible and that the coach assumes the responsibility for each player's eligibility. It was not my job to know the details of school zoning, what is on a player's birth certificate, or what may have transpired in previous games that may affect subsequent games.

The objection was duly noted and the game proceeded. I forwarded the information via our state's standard "Incident Report" form. I have no idea what happened in both cases. I was never given any feedback on the matter.

I assume a team forfeits if they use a player who is not eligible to be on the team. But, at the time, I figured that was not my call.

This is a far cry from the simple determination that a team does not have 9 players to begin the game.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

If the rulebook specifically says the umpire has the authority to forfeit the game under certain circumstances, then by all means, do your job and forfeit the game as the rulebook says.

Those situations in the prior post deal more with eligibility of players rather than rules of the game. I tell coaches I'm not touching those, and to contact the governing body to determine if their opponent used an ineligible player.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

If the rulebook specifically says the umpire has the authority to forfeit the game under certain circumstances, then by all means, do your job and forfeit the game as the rulebook says.

Forfeiting is not an umpire's job. It's like calling a catcher's balk.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Matt

Forfeiting is not an umpire's job. It's like calling a catcher's balk.

According to David's post #6, assuming he's quoting from the book, in that situation, it IS the umpire's job.

[ozzy6900]

This is something that may be different in other States so you need to check with the State Association.

In CT, there must be a approved, adult coach present or the game is over. No parents are allowed. So in CT, if you eject the only coach, from the field, the players may as well follow to the bus.