Is the coach ejected?

[kstiles99]

NFHS Ruleset

This happened about two weeks ago...
I am R in a freshman girls game and I'm getting ready to give the home team the ball to start the 4th quarter. The inbounder along with 2 of her teammates start bellyaching very sarcastically to me about how much they've been fouled with no calls. I tell the three of them I'll take a closer look but I've already heard complaining from their coach and I don't want to hear it from them. They keep on with it and I jokingly say "I've never given out a triple technical."

Well.. This got me thinking. If the three of them kept on and on and I decided to call a T on each.. (And no Ts were called earlier in the game) would the coach be ejected because of 3 indirect Ts? And isn't this a false multiple foul? Wouldn't the penalty be like any other technical except 6 shots and the ball at the division line opposite table with no change in the possession arrow?

(And no.. I didn't and wouldn't call three technical fouls just like that. I'd think of a better way to handle the situation)

[Adam]

Let's see, three Ts on players during an intermission. Ouch. Might want to hand the ball to the thrower before you call the Ts.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

Let's see, three Ts on players during an intermission.

It's on my bucket list.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by kstiles99

NFHS Ruleset

This happened about two weeks ago...
I am R in a freshman girls game and I'm getting ready to give the home team the ball to start the 4th quarter. The inbounder along with 2 of her teammates start bellyaching very sarcastically to me about how much they've been fouled with no calls. I tell the three of them I'll take a closer look but I've already heard complaining from their coach and I don't want to hear it from them. They keep on with it and I jokingly say "I've never given out a triple technical."

Well.. This got me thinking. If the three of them kept on and on and I decided to call a T on each.. (And no Ts were called earlier in the game) would the coach be ejected because of 3 indirect Ts? And isn't this a false multiple foul? Wouldn't the penalty be like any other technical except 6 shots and the ball at the division line opposite table with no change in the possession arrow?

(And no.. I didn't and wouldn't call three technical fouls just like that. I'd think of a better way to handle the situation)

Technically (no pun intended), the coach would indeed be ejected for three indirect Ts because the unsporting acts were on bench personnel (because this was during intermission). And then you'd get a phone call from your assigner later that evening that you probably wouldn't like.

The better way you mentioned, in my opinion, would be to select the most boisterous/aggressive of the three and issue the T to that person. Hopefully that sends the message. If not, then you (and hopefully your partners, too) can assess additional Ts as necessary.

The fourth quarter begins by administering the appropriate number of free throws followed by a throw-in at the division line opposite the table to the offended team. The offending team retains the AP arrow and will have the next opportunity to make an AP throw-in.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Adam

Let's see, three Ts on players during an intermission.

There are no players during an intermission nor is there such a thing as a bench player. Try to clean up the precision of your terminology.

Use "team members" for these situations.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There are no players during an intermission nor is there such a thing as a bench player. Try to clean up the precision of your terminology. Use "team members" for these situations.

Wouldn't "bench personnel" be an even better term for these situations?

4-34:
ART. 1 A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court
at any given time, except intermission.
ART. 2 Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with
a team, including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and
statistician(s). During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel for
the purpose of penalizing unsporting behavior.
ART. 3 A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court.
If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live.
A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or
after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.
ART. 4 A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform
and is eligible to become a player.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by kstiles99

NFHS Ruleset

This happened about two weeks ago...
I am R in a freshman girls game and I'm getting ready to give the home team the ball to start the 4th quarter. The inbounder along with 2 of her teammates start bellyaching very sarcastically to me about how much they've been fouled with no calls. I tell the three of them I'll take a closer look but I've already heard complaining from their coach and I don't want to hear it from them. They keep on with it and I jokingly say "I've never given out a triple technical."

Well.. This got me thinking. If the three of them kept on and on and I decided to call a T on each.. (And no Ts were called earlier in the game) would the coach be ejected because of 3 indirect Ts? And isn't this a false multiple foul? Wouldn't the penalty be like any other technical except 6 shots and the ball at the division line opposite table with no change in the possession arrow?

(And no.. I didn't and wouldn't call three technical fouls just like that. I'd think of a better way to handle the situation)

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Wouldn't "bench personnel" be an even better term for these situations?

4-34:
ART. 1 A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court
at any given time, except intermission.
ART. 2 Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with
a team, including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and
statistician(s). During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel for
the purpose of penalizing unsporting behavior.
ART. 3 A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court.
If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live.
A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or
after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.
ART. 4 A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform
and is eligible to become a player.

The Intermission between the Third and Fourth quarters is sixty seconds in length. There is a First (Warning) Signal 45 seconds after the Intermission starts and the Intermission ends when the Second Signal sounds sixty seconds after the Start of the Intermission.

Therefore, it is logical that the Intermission has to have ended before the Throw-in to start the Fourth Quarter can begin. That means that you could charge all three players with TFs and their HC is not charged three IDTFs.

MTD, Sr.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

...the Intermission ends when the Second Signal sounds sixty seconds after the Start of the Intermission.

Therefore, it is logical that the Intermission has to have ended before the Throw-in to start the Fourth Quarter can begin. That means that you could charge all three players with TFs and their HC is not charged three IDTFs.

I respectfully disagree. The fourth quarter begins when the ball first becomes live to start the period. If the intermission by definition ended at the 60-second horn, what would you call the interval between that and when the ball becomes live? It would be neither intermission nor fourth quarter.

I don't believe it works this way. I believe the intermission ends when the ball becomes live to begin the quarter.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I respectfully disagree. The fourth quarter begins when the ball first becomes live to start the period. If the intermission by definition ended at the 60-second horn, what would you call the interval between that and when the ball becomes live? It would be neither intermission nor fourth quarter.

I don't believe it works this way. I believe the intermission ends when the ball becomes live to begin the quarter.

Nowhere in the rules does it say the intermission ends when the ball becomes live to begin the quarter.

Rule 2-12-4: "The timer shall sound a warning signal 15 seconds before the expiration of an intermission or a time-out, immediately after which the players shall prepare to resume play, and signal again at the end of the intermission or time-out."

The end of the intermission and the ball becoming live to start the period are not necessarily simultaneous events.

[crosscountry55]

Humiliation is what one receives when not checking the book before posting.

Well said. I stand corrected.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The Intermission between the Third and Fourth quarters is sixty seconds in length. There is a First (Warning) Signal 45 seconds after the Intermission starts and the Intermission ends when the Second Signal sounds sixty seconds after the Start of the Intermission.

Therefore, it is logical that the Intermission has to have ended before the Throw-in to start the Fourth Quarter can begin. That means that you could charge all three players with TFs and their HC is not charged three IDTFs.

MTD, Sr.

I agree. when the second horn blows the intermission is over. the team members who reported in or were reported in by coach before first horn blew are the players after the second horn. (note also--substitutes become players when they legally enter court. ball becoming live isnt required to make a team member a player--unless he/she entered illegal. ) when the 5 players are out on floor after horn and before ball handed to thrower in i believe they are players. Ts on them are not charged to coach.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

With apologies to The King of Rock and Roll:

"Thank you. Thank you very much."


MTD, Sr.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

With apologies to The King of Rock and Roll:

"Thank you. Thank you very much."


MTD, Sr.

Yes, that was a good catch...

[kstiles99]

Well said, fellows. Also Crosscountry, thanks for helping out in my threads.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

If the intermission by definition ended at the 60-second horn, what would you call the interval between that and when the ball becomes live? It would be neither intermission nor fourth quarter.

Just to answer this question for completeness--covered by a phrase in 2-2-3: "...periods when the game may be momentarily stopped..."