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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 22, 2016, 12:21pm
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Traditional vs Hockey Style Mask

I'm thinking about making the switch to the hockey style mask. For those of you that have switched, what has your experience with the mask been like?

I hate the look, but I'm thinking about making the switch for protection reasons. Is the protection that much better?

I haven't seen anybody wear a throat protector with it. Is it not needed?

Thanks!
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Old Wed Jun 22, 2016, 01:19pm
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For the same mask, the protection from the front would be the same. The HSM provides protection to the top, back, and sides of your head. It is helpful if you are on a field with a short backstop.
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Old Wed Jun 22, 2016, 01:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72 View Post

I haven't seen anybody wear a throat protector with it.
Wear one. Someday you'll be glad you did.
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Old Thu Jun 23, 2016, 07:17am
LRZ LRZ is offline
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Look at the 14th post, from Jim Kirk, of ump-attire:

Wilson Shock FX 2.0 - Umpire Equipment - Umpire-Empire
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 23, 2016, 07:29am
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Which model/brand of hockey style mask ?
Is there a enough benefited difference between a $100 to $300 HSM?
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Old Thu Jun 23, 2016, 08:10am
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Old Thu Jun 23, 2016, 08:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illinoisbluezeb View Post
Which model/brand of hockey style mask ?
Is there a enough benefited difference between a $100 to $300 HSM?
After seeing this:

Texas A&M catcher's mask explodes after being pelted by foul ball

I'd say spending the extra on the higher end models is worth the coin.

If I were to ever switch to a bucket, it'd either be a Force3 or an All-Star MVP4000.
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Old Fri Jun 24, 2016, 12:59pm
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Soooo

As we know HSM have been outlawed by professional umpire groups at AA and below. Umpires have been grandfathered in at the two upper professional levels.

Studies have show that head injuries are more prevalent an are more serious when wearing HSM.

Another negative that comes from umpires wearing HSM is their argument that the mask does NOT have to be removed when an umpire rotates up to make a call on the bases. Stupid argument.

HOWEVER, if an umpire works in a location (often) where there is an over hang netting (fencing) then the "trade off" for the potential injury aspect becomes less important.


So IF you go HSM do not spare expense. Go for the nest product available.

Tee
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Old Fri Jun 24, 2016, 01:43pm
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Kinda surprised, didn't know that they were outlawed at low levels. Wonder if they'll re-think it after Emmel did his best Clint Malarchuk impression last night.
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Old Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C View Post
As we know HSM have been outlawed by professional umpire groups at AA and below. Umpires have been grandfathered in at the two upper professional levels.
While it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there was an unofficial ban, an actual, written one would be. Is this true?

Quote:
Studies have show that head injuries are more prevalent an are more serious when wearing HSM.
O rly? Where would we find these studies? I'm not buying it.

Quote:
Another negative that comes from umpires wearing HSM is their argument that the mask does NOT have to be removed when an umpire rotates up to make a call on the bases. Stupid argument.
That is a stupid argument. I've never heard it made.

Quote:
HOWEVER, if an umpire works in a location (often) where there is an over hang netting (fencing) then the "trade off" for the potential injury aspect becomes less important.
Not getting indepth on what I believe is the faulty premise of this "tradeoff", I can attest to the utility of an HSM on short/overhanging backstops. Now I'm not strictly an HSM guy - I actually use the mask mostly on large fields. But when the mood strikes me, I'll use an HSM - and ALWAYS on short/overhanging backstops. Twice, I've been hit in the back of the head from rebounding balls. The first time a few years ago, it wasn't much of a hit. But this year, a ball must have hit a support post or something, because it came back pretty hard. It was startling even with the full helmet. Without it? Not good.


So IF you go HSM do not spare expense. Go for the nest product available.

Tee[/QUOTE]
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Old Fri Jun 24, 2016, 10:42pm
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Time to market a catchers skull cap with shorter bill. Actually, one of our guys used his JUCO coach hard hat and it didn't look bad. He had taken a button hit once. One of our guys also had a hard cover just for the round part of the cap (made in Mexico).
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Old Sat Jun 25, 2016, 05:08pm
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Hmm,

Scrounge:

I am not commenting on any thing that is not common knowledge.

You might not have been on this site long enough to know:

Minor League Baseball Administration along with their Insurance carrier did a study of all MiLB Umpires that experienced head trauma. What was found that MiLB umpires wearing HSM masks not only experience a high number of concussion injuries but the injuries were worse in level of injury. (This is much like when MiLB ended the use of the "Scissors Stance".)

The MiLB Administration then stopped the use of HSM masks for levels lower than AAA. Several AAA Umpires were Grandfathered in and allowed to continue use..

Also, several non-professional umpires that post here and on the ABUA website have commented that with the "great vision" afforded by the HSM thatthey DO NOT remove the HSM when rotation to cover a base (such as third) . . .

I am sorry you question what I posted but it is all documented and common knowledge.

Tee
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Old Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:24pm
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This common knowledge doesn't appear to be very common. And if it's documented....well, I imagine you can point me in the direction of this document?

I'm not saying you're wrong or exaggerating, btw....I just want to see it, or at least something related to it. Did they test high quality HSMs like the All-Star or Force 3, or just any $25 piece of plastic? I've seen Brad from All-Star himself post detailed info on the pros and cons of HSMs vs TMs. If there is documentation on the other side? I'm willing to read that....just where is it?

Last edited by scrounge; Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 07:09am.
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Old Mon Jun 27, 2016, 12:49pm
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Thanks everybody for your input. Tee, I'll ask some of my MiLB friends if they have any insight as to the HSM ban.

Really, I'm looking for the "concussion" protection as opposed to the "top of the cage rebound" protection. I'd say I work about 50/50 on fields with overhang cages (not very good varsity and men's league fields around here). I guess it will only take one shot off the cage to change my mind though!
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Old Mon Jun 27, 2016, 02:10pm
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Scrounge:

When the "scissors stance" was banned for lower MiLB umpires we went to the MiLB Administration and asked for a copy of the study and document.

We were refused with the comment "this is a private document between MiLB Administration and the Umpire union."

This was the same comment we received on the HSM issue.

The real proof is that, to the best of my knowledge, no AA or lower umpires work wearing an HSM.

Tee
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