Dead Ball?

[Rufus]

Situation: 1st base open, 2 strikes on the batter, no outs. Batter swings at pitch and misses for strike three, but the ball strikes him in the arm and deflects away from catcher. BR advances to 1st on the dropped third.

Reading Fed 5-1-1 it says:

Ball becomes dead immediately when: a pitch touches a batter or his clothing; 1. The ball becomes dead even though the batter strikes at it

Fed 7-2-1(b) says:

A strike is charged to the batter when: a pitch is struck at and missed (even if the pitch touches the batter)

Based on the above. Should this have been a dead ball, batter's out on swing/miss on 3rd strike? OBR 6.05(f) seems to address this as well.

[mbyron]

Yes. Dead-ball strike, batter cannot advance.

[MD Longhorn]

Please, for got's sake, tell us the umpire didn't give this runner 1st or allow anyone to advance (or worse... say "Hands are part of the bat.")

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Please, for got's sake, tell us the umpire didn't give this runner 1st or allow anyone to advance (or worse... say "Hands are part of the bat.")

Well, I can say that you got 1/2 of your wish. Runners advanced, BR allowed to stay on 1st. Since the ball didn't hit the BR's hands no chance to break that chestnut out.

I should have protested, but live and learn.

[MD Longhorn]

Here's an easy thing to remember.

Always. 100% of the time. No exceptions: When the batter is hit by the pitch (no matter where, and no matter what else was happening), the ball is dead. Period.

Start with that, and then rule on the pitch. Ball? HBP? Strike in the zone (had this just 2 weeks ago!)? Swinging strike?

But start with --- the ball is dead. The rest becomes obvious after that.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Please, for got's sake, tell us the umpire didn't give this runner 1st or allow anyone to advance (or worse... say "Hands are part of the bat.")

this play happen to our crew in a DI game on sat.. and yes the 3rd base coach says " but it hit him in the hands" and I said so? " but the hands are part of the bat" and I told him, if you go to the store and buy a bat, do the hands come with it".. he just shrugged and said your right...LOL

[BretMan]

That's an old saw and I guess it's good that he bought it. Personally, this kind of explanation isn't the kind I like to give. It's kind of a smart a$$ answer and often the coach will take it that you're just being a smart a$$.

I prefer a more professional answer.

Coach: But the hands are part of the bat.

Me: No, that is incorrect, By rule, the hands are not part of the bat. They are part of the batter.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BretMan

By rule, the hands are not part of the bat. They are part of the batter.[/I]

Don't say that - he'll go looking for the rule that says it and won't find and call you names.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rufus

BR advances to 1st on the dropped third.

BTW, you can prevent this. On any HBP, the proper mechanic is "Time!" Sell that immediately and loudly, and the batter will turn around and look at you, probably expecting you to award him 1B.

Then just calmly say, "That's strike 3 on the swing. He's out." And signal the out.

When the coach comes out to ask, just tell him that the swing made strike 3, and the ball became dead when it hit the batter, preventing him from advancing. If he complains about the fairness of that rule, tell him to coach his batters not to swing at pitches that are about to hit them.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by mbyron

BTW, you can prevent this. On any HBP, the proper mechanic is "Time!" Sell that immediately and loudly, and the batter will turn around and look at you, probably expecting you to award him 1B.

Then just calmly say, "That's strike 3 on the swing. He's out." And signal the out.

When the coach comes out to ask, just tell him that the swing made strike 3, and the ball became dead when it hit the batter, preventing him from advancing. If he complains about the fairness of that rule, tell him to coach his batters not to swing at pitches that are about to hit them.

I agree that would have been nice to see. Unfortunately I was the defensive coach and was not able to convince the PU.

[BretMan]

Did you actually talk to the umpire and did he actually say he saw the pitch touch the batter? We know the rule, but what we don't know is what the plate umpire saw and judged. Maybe he didn't call time because he didn't see it hit the batter.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Did you actually talk to the umpire and did he actually say he saw the pitch touch the batter? We know the rule, but what we don't know is what the plate umpire saw and judged. Maybe he didn't call time because he didn't see it hit the batter.

Absolutely. At first I was going to let it go but a light bulb went off when I thought "that hit the batter, it's a dead ball." I asked for time to discuss it with the PU. The PU said that it was still a live ball even though it had hit the batter. The BU came in and backed him up on it as well (both that the batter was hit by the ball and that it was still live).

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Absolutely. At first I was going to let it go but a light bulb went off when I thought "that hit the batter, it's a dead ball." I asked for time to discuss it with the PU. The PU said that it was still a live ball even though it had hit the batter. The BU came in and backed him up on it as well (both that the batter was hit by the ball and that it was still live).

Sounds like at least a friendly conversation with the UIC is in order. Even the most green umpire should know the ball is dead here. Might not know what to do about it on a strike ... but SURELY should know it's dead.