player control

[AKOFL]

When can you have player control and no team control? This is for you nevada Not really, it's for everyone.

[JugglingReferee]

Crab dribble?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

When can you have player control and no team control? This is for you nevada Not really, it's for everyone.

Never. If player control exists, then by definition team control does as well per 4-12-2a.

By rule a player control foul can be committed following the release of a try by an airborne shooter, but even in that case there really isn't player control when the foul occurs.

[AKOFL]

That's why I don't like the term player control foul.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

That's why I don't like the term player control foul.

Then all that you are saying is that you like the current NCAAM's rule and the previous NFHS rule better.

Are you aware that the HS rule used to not include the airborne shooter?

[BillyMac]

4-12-1: A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling
a live ball inbounds. There is no player control when, during a jump ball, a jumper catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper, or during an interrupted dribble.

4-19-6: A player-control foul is a common foul committed by a player while
he/she is in control of the ball or by an airborne shooter.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Then all that you are saying is that you like the current NCAAM's rule and the previous NFHS rule better.

Are you aware that the HS rule used to not include the airborne shooter?

I did not know that. What was the reasoning for the change? Just curious. I have no real problem with the NFHS rule, it's just odd wording. I would like one signal for all offencive fouls though.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

I did not know that. What was the reasoning for the change? Just curious. I have no real problem with the NFHS rule, it's just odd wording. I would like one signal for all offencive fouls though.

The word that I got from some long time vets was that too many officials were screwing up this play. They were incorrect counting or cancelling goals and failing to award bonus FTs at the opposite end because they didn't take a decent look at when the try was released compared to when the contact occurred.

Therefore, the NFHS chose to simplify it and just changed the rule so that the goal is always disallowed and FTs are never awarded. That made for consistent enforcement.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The word that I got from some long time vets was that too many officials were screwing up this play. They were incorrect counting or cancelling goals and failing to award bonus FTs at the opposite end because they didn't take a decent look at when the try was released compared to when the contact occurred.

Therefore, the NFHS chose to simplify it and just changed the rule so that the goal is always disallowed and FTs are never awarded. That made for consistent enforcement.

I find this account plausible and consistent with the NFHS approach to officiating.

[VTOfficial]

In a game I had yesterday, I had the pass/crash situation happen. A1 drove toward the basket and passed the ball to A2, and after he released the pass, A1 crashed into B1. I called player control using the player control signal as if he had been an airborne shooter. Is this the correct signal to use or should I have used the push signal with the team control "punch"?

[dbking]

Originally Posted by VTOfficial

In a game I had yesterday, I had the pass/crash situation happen. A1 drove toward the basket and passed the ball to A2, and after he released the pass, A1 crashed into B1. I called player control using the player control signal as if he had been an airborne shooter. Is this the correct signal to use or should I have used the push signal with the team control "punch"?

By the book would be a push and team control punch. Player is no longer in control.

I like the NCAA W mechanic of just using the punch for all player control fouls and situations like the quote above.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The word that I got from some long time vets was that too many officials were screwing up this play. They were incorrect counting or cancelling goals and failing to award bonus FTs at the opposite end because they didn't take a decent look at when the try was released compared to when the contact occurred.

Therefore, the NFHS chose to simplify it and just changed the rule so that the goal is always disallowed and FTs are never awarded. That made for consistent enforcement.

That sounds good to me. It does take that bit of guessing out of the mix. What do you think about just one signal nevada?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by dbking

I like the NCAA W mechanic of just using the punch for all player control fouls and situations like the quote above.

Agree. Would like to see the NFHS and/or IAABO include it as an official signal.

[williebfree]

Originally Posted by VTOfficial

In a game I had yesterday, I had the pass/crash situation happen. A1 drove toward the basket and passed the ball to A2, and after he released the pass, A1 crashed into B1. I called player control using the player control signal as if he had been an airborne shooter. Is this the correct signal to use or should I have used the push signal with the team control "punch"?

Once A1 passes he is just another member on the team with control of the ball.

I would punch and call the push.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by dbking

I like the NCAA W mechanic of just using the punch for all player control fouls and situations like the quote above.

Originally Posted by AKOFL

That sounds good to me. It does take that bit of guessing out of the mix. What do you think about just one signal nevada?

If they went to only one signal, I would prefer the hand behind the head. I don't care for the punch signal because it looks too similar to the mechanic for scoring the goal when the offensive player is fouled while making the shot.
Yes, I know that the proper NCAA mechanic is to extend two fingers for this, but I still think that from a distance the two look too much alike. The hand behind the head mechanic eliminates any possible confusion.