The Superintendent Husband

[Jimgolf]

If you are officiating an eighth-grade game early in the season, be aware that you may run into inexpereinced coaches. A short meeting before the game to establish the ground rules is wise here, especially if you don't know the coaches involved. "I see you have two coaches on the bench. Who is the head coach? Ok, remember that you're the only one permitted to stand during the game according to the rules," etc.

Be prepared and you won't be surprised.

As far as the super-intendent question by the AD, I would have asked the AD why he had coaches that don't know the rule book. I guess I wouldn't be working there again, LOL.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Junker

Agreed, he needs to be on the bench. I must have been unclear. If he's up coaching his players, I'll ask the HC to get him on the bench. If he's up complaining, I'll sit him down with a T. Assistants are there to coach and as an esteemed forum member always states, we have to talk to Batman, but not Robin. My main point was that I would never stop the game to give a warning in a situation like this.

I do agree with you here, you made it clear for me.

[truerookie]

All who replied,
Thanks for the vast knowledge given on this subject. At no time, I said the way I handle the situation was ideal. I had a situation and I handle it based on the level of experience I have. I now have additional tools in which I can use in my officiating toolbox. I wanted to share a situation I encountered with fellow officials.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by deecee

...most Ts can be avoided with preventative officiating.

My BS flag is flying higher than ever! You know why this is BS? Because the T's I call don't have anything to do with something that I can prevent. What am I supposed to do to prevent unsporting behavior? Someone said something (in this thread or another) about a coach being on his knees or running out on to the floor. What do you do to prevent that? What do I do to prevent a kid from saying my partner's call is BS? If the assistant mentioned got up and complained to the official, what could be done to prevent that from happening?

I have got to be misunderstanding you. Yep, that's it, I don't understand what you are saying.

[Ref_ Fred]

True Rookie, I commend you for sharing... I've been officiating for 6 season, start my 7th. I have a log book of issue that I have experienced for every game I have officiated or watcthed and dated. I can tell you from 6 years that I have completed I almost have 3 composition books completed and I don't have a one repeat issue in there so it goes to show you we can learn something everyday whether you have 2 years or 20, trust me.

Good Luck!

[deecee]

Maybe I am just different but I can for see a possible volatile situation on the horizon and attempt to fix it before it gets there. Thats just me.

A player says my partnerscall was bullpoop and well that will get him a T.

I have seen many Ts given that in my opinion shouldn't have because

a) the officials didnt try and defuse anything that led up to the T
b) the officials put themselves in those situations to give the T rather than reading the situation -- referring to the you know the coach is pissed so you report and just give him a look like 'what now?' -- aka leading
c) overly judicious officials
d) officials with no common sense

most T's I have seen have fallen under those categories. I can remember all 5 T's I have given

1 -- player just shoves an opponent in the back during a screen away from the ball (flagrant was to harsh -- I thought maybe even the T was to harsh since the player only was moved about a foot --but the T had to be called because the game was going down the wrong direction)
2 -- double T during jump ball -- player getting up from on top the player gently nudges the player below him who gets up and shoves him back.
3 -- coach getting blown out was frustrated and for 1 whole quarter was just being a pain in the a$$ -- i tried to reason but when that failed I hated to but at least it got him sitting and quiet
4 -- my partner makes a call and is walking away and coach says "what a horsepoop call and everyone knows it" -- I waited a second to see if my partner heard it so he could deal with it then I dealt with it.
5 -- Player passes the ball to the 6th player in the 3rd row of the bleacher and gets upset with himself so he yells out "f___" well it was loud enough for me to hear it about 10 feet away (couldve probably heard it 20 feet away) so it cost him.

SO there I was wrong 6 total T's in 4 years. All I am saying when you start getting those cheap shots in your game and players elbowing and shoving its because YOU didnt set them straight with how YOU were going to call the game. as an official a game gets out of control because of YOU not the players -- you know a game will be physical nip it early -- "Hands off red" next time you have to say that *tweet* foul -- this goes for post play away from the ball -- off ball calls helps a lot. Next thing you know the players that play overly aggressive now have a couple fouls early and have to adjust. You let blue shove red in the post now red think he can shove blue back -- now THEY push the line back because you were not firm.

You can prevent a lot of T's by being aware of the game -- you notice 2 players getting physical tell them to knock it off lound enough so they both hear you -- dead ball get up in their face and tell them to cut it out. Now start blowing your whistle. If these same 2 players somehow get "entangled up" and its close enough to be either one -- double foul. Its always best however to get the FIRST offense but once two players are at it give em both a foul. THEY WILL ADJUST. By the time you have to give the T you have lost control.

so you can prevent unsporting behavior in many instances...

as for the coaches you can only really WORK with those that some some sort of reason and common sense built into them -- otherwise you are wasting your time -- my 2 cents.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by truerookie

AD: what happened with the Superintendent husband?
ME: who is that?
AD: the coach, you told he could not be up off the bench.
ME: I was being couteous by informing the head coach that his assistant could not be off the bench coaching.
AD: That was the Superintendent's husband she is upset that you told her husband to take a seat.
ME: I was being courteous it could have cost them a T. I elect not to issue one. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have been better off whacking him!!


Anyone would have handle it differently?

Yes.

AD: what happened with the Superintendent husband?
ME: who is that?
AD: the coach, you told he could not be up off the bench.
ME: Right...and?
AD: That was the Superintendent's husband she is upset that you told her husband to take a seat.
ME: She'll get over it. Where's my check?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

TrueRookie . . . to answer about a coach's warning being placed in the book, the answer is no. I am aware of no specific rule which covers this issue. Some officials do this to keep a "written" log of the fact.

There are states, and local associations, that mandate that a warning be placed in the book when a coach is warned for any type of bench issue.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Junker this is what you wrote: My point of view, first of all, it's an 8th grade game. As long as the coach is up coaching and not being a butt, I don't have a huge problem with him.

It doesn't matter if he is coaching or complaining, he should be sitting.

If you read the rest of that same post, his position becomes more clear. By truncating his remarks, you've changed his meaning.

Junker, you were clear.

[tomegun]

Deecee,

That is good reading. I didn't have any popcorn, but I did have some pretzels! It seems like you are speaking with 4 years of experience and IMO that isn't enough (in this case). I don't know if you've been in enough situations.

Donnee Gray always says he can help an official reduce the amount of T's they give but he can't give someone the courage to call a T.
Keep in mind, there is a difference between communication and letting a coach get away with anything. The bottom line is it sounds like you are stroking players and coaches too much instead of breaking them off a T. But that is just my 2 cents.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You said he was "coaching" - you didn't say anything about him yelling. And even if he was, if all you were going to do is warn him, you should warn him without stopping play.

I was trail, opposite.
Last night's V assistant (head JV coach) took an extended walk [about a minute], to the endline (that's where the water jug was) on his way down he was coaching, then stopped near the jug coaching. Partner called a foul, I switched and reminded the assistant that this was a close game and that I didn't want to see it get ugly cuz he was off the bench. He knowingly smiled and said "Okay".

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by mick

I was trail, opposite.
Last night's V assistant (head JV coach) took an extended walk [about a minute], to the endline (that's where the water jug was) on his way down he was coaching, then stopped near the jug coaching. Partner called a foul, I switched and reminded the assistant that this was a close game and that I didn't want to see it get ugly cuz he was off the bench. He knowingly smiled and said "Okay".

That's a perfect example of what the right thing to do is. No need to stop a play and make a big scene out of it just for a warning. Everyone wins.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Donnee Gray always says he can help an official reduce the amount of T's they give but he can't give someone the courage to call a T.

Keep in mind, there is a difference between communication and letting a coach get away with anything.

Donnee Gray is a wise man.

Contrary to what some officials seem to believe, in the vast majority of cases when a technical foul gets called, it isn't the official's fault. You're not a failure as an official if you do have to call one. It's simply a reaction to an unsporting act, a technical violation of some sort or a player just doing something stupid- like hanging on the rim. It's also just another call.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Donnee Gray is a wise man.

Contrary to what some officials seem to believe, in the vast majority of cases when a technical foul gets called, it isn't the official's fault. You're not a failure as an official if you do have to call one. It's simply a reaction to an unsporting act, a technical violation of some sort or a player just doing something stupid- like hanging on the rim. It's also just another call.

i cannot agree more with this -- kudos

seems like my comment of most Ts can be avoided doesnt matter because most relate to game management on the official.

in these instances there is no management needed and thanks for pointing out that it's also just another call -- I thought it was a spiritual ritual done when the moon is half waning in the fourth quarter of the systemic cycle....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

I have seen many Ts given that in my opinion shouldn't have because

1 -- player just shoves an opponent in the back during a screen away from the ball (flagrant was to harsh -- I thought maybe even the T was to harsh since the player only was moved about a foot --but the T had to be called because the game was going down the wrong direction)
2 -- double T during jump ball -- player getting up from on top the player gently nudges the player below him who gets up and shoves him back.


SO there I was wrong 6 total T's in 4 years. All I am saying when you start getting those cheap shots in your game and players elbowing and shoving its because YOU didnt set them straight with how YOU were going to call the game. as an official a game gets out of control because of YOU not the players -- you know a game will be physical nip it early -- "Hands off red" next time you have to say that *tweet* foul -- this goes for post play away from the ball -- off ball calls helps a lot. Next thing you know the players that play overly aggressive now have a couple fouls early and have to adjust. You let blue shove red in the post now red think he can shove blue back -- now THEY push the line back because you were not firm.

Agree....and you just posted two examples where a technical foul couldn't and shouldn't be called, by rule. In both #1 & 2 above, you had live-ball contact fouls. Those are personal fouls of some type, never a technical foul. Technical fouls are dead-ball contact fouls. A shove in the back during a screen is personal foul. And a nudge immediately followed by retaliation during a jump ball would be a double personal foul.

You control the game by calling intentional or flagrant personal fouls if the play is getting too rough. Elbowing, pushing and shoving during play are personal fouls, not technical fouls.

Just wanted to straighten out the technicalities, not the technicals.