The Superintendent Husband

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I ask JR the question to get a better understanding on how the officials in his area handle their warning.

(1) The officials in his area give the head coaches a courtesy warning in the meeting with the coaches about who is authorized to stand while the clock is running. (not required)
(2). They violate during game they issue another warning about the box. I was asking do they identify that one in the book as an official warning.

No, officials do not identify it as an "official" warning....mainly because the rules don't allow it to be handled that way. Our officials are simply expected to state to the coach that his assistant is not supposed to be on his feet, and that another warning will not be given. It is expected that all of our officials would then follow-up on the warning and issue the "T".

Rook, the whole idea of us setting that procedure out is so discussions exactly the same as this one will not take place. All officials know what is expected of them. The rules are administered evenly, consistently and fairly. All head and assistant coaches know exactly what they can do or not do. The FED POE's get followed.

Iow, it's really no different than most other calls imo. If you can get all your officials calling it the same way, then nobody should have any complaints....head coaches, assistant coaches, other officials. Of course, in real life, you're always gonna get an official that doesn't personally agree with our instructions, and he's gonna do his own thing, no matter what. That just hurts the majority imo.

The whole idea is to try and get it called uniformly and consistently by everybody in a particular area. Does that make sense?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

In the example, the Asst. Coach was up coaching, for how long I don't know. If he was up for very long though, he definitely would be given a warning. How long is that? Depends on each individual official.

That's the problem right there imo, Dog. Assistant coaches don't really know what to expect; there's no consistency coming from the officials. One game they might be able to wander the whole game; the next game they might get "T"d in a NY minute.

It's no different than some other calls that seem to turn up as POE's every year also. A prime example is the use of hands by a defender. Some officials call it by the POE; some officials wouldn't call it that way ever. Meanwhile, the defender doesn't know what he can get away with from game to game.

I certainly can see where rookie officials can get confused. They're getting different officials telling them to call it different ways. That's gotta be frustrating as hell.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, officials do not identify it as an "official" warning....mainly because the rules don't allow it to be handled that way. Our officials are simply expected to state to the coach that his assistant is not supposed to be on his feet, and that another warning will not be given. It is expected that all of our officials would then follow-up on the warning and issue the "T".

Rook, the whole idea of us setting that procedure out is so discussions exactly the same as this one will not take place. All officials know what is expected of them. The rules are administered evenly, consistently and fairly. All head and assistant coaches know exactly what they can do or not do. The FED POE's get followed.

Iow, it's really no different than most other calls imo. If you can get all your officials calling it the same way, then nobody should have any complaints....head coaches, assistant coaches, other officials. Of course, in real life, you're always gonna get an official that doesn't personally agree with our instructions, and he's gonna do his own thing, no matter what. That just hurts the majority imo.

The whole idea is to try and get it called uniformly and consistently by everybody in a particular area. Does that make sense?

It makes alot of sense. I just wanted to ask. Thanks

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by truerookie

8th grade boys consolation game. 2nd quarter, I am trail table side. The assistant coach is up off the bench coaching at about this time before I could say coach have a seat. (being couteous) not whacking him!! His team steals the ball. So, I hit the whistle to stop play. I informed the head coach that his assistant needs to remain seated on the bench while the clock is running or its going to cost him the privilege of using the coaching box. We play on no problem the rest of the game.

After the game, it gets interesting.


AD: what happened with the Superintendent husband?
ME: who is that?
AD: the coach, you told he could not be up off the bench.
ME: I was being couteous by informing the head coach that his assistant could not be off the bench coaching.
AD: That was the Superintendent's husband she is upset that you told her husband to take a seat.
ME: I was being courteous it could have cost them a T. I elect not to issue one. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have been better off whacking him!!


Anyone would have handle it differently?

Almost everyone has drilled him for stopping the game for the warning (and it is all valid) but what about the AD after the game questions him because it was the Super's husband. I don't care if it was the Bill Clinton, if the AD is going to come at me after the game with this bullsh*t I would do myself a favor and not work there again.

We had the same thing a couple of years ago where our mayor coached his son's 7th grade team, he didn't bother me I lived in the county!

[tomegun]

Wow, I read through this whole thread and got confused; I had to look back and see if Truerookie was the OP or Deecee was the OP.
If something is a POE every year there is a reason for it. Bigdog, apparently the Federation has determined it necessary to make this part of a POE. Communication must have failed. As stated earlier, there isn't consistency with how bench decorum is handled. Stopping the game is not the answer. I would just mention something to the head coach in passing and continue on my way. IMO, talking to an assistant coach is out of the question - for the most (99%) of the time I will talk to an assistant coach when they become a head coach. Oh, I will greet them before games and tell them where the ball will be put into play during a timeout. That is about it.
Wow, two (2) T's in four years. Did you say something like you tried to avoid one of those two? I find it hard to believe an official can officiate for four years and only come across two coaches that earn technical fouls. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying you are very fortunate...or you should have given out more T's.

[Ref_ Fred]

True rookie, You could have stopped the game at any point before they stole the ball. Why did you blow your whistle when they had a steal and possible break away? The next dead ball could have been a more appropriate time. Was the coach or the bench warned before that point. Just IMO. I'm sure there are different ways that it could have been handled..

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I got that, I understand. One question though.

Once, the official (s) warn the coach about the assitant. Is that identified in the book as an official warning?

While others have (correctly) told you that there is no official warning under FED rules, you should check with your local area / state to be sure. Last year, for example, IL *did* have an official warning for the HC being out fo the box.

And, while Jurassic gave you the POE, I'm sure many officials will continue to use the "wave, warn, whack" phiolosophy to handle the problem.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Camron, I understand that. Let me clear this up a little more. As Team B was advancing the ball into the frontcourt tableside in front of Team A bench the assistant was standing the entire time. My thoughts were as I get in front of the bench, I will inform the assitant that he needs to have a seat. However, the ball was stolen right in front of me and his by Team A. This is when, I stopped the game and informed the coach his assistant needs to have a seat. So, what I am gathering from the replies. I should have waited until my next trip down to inform the coach his assistant needs to have a seat. I was already there handle it then.

Haven't read the entire thread so you may have already answered this, but why stop game action to give a warning? If it was blatant/obvious enough to warrant stopping play, then I say it warrants a 'T'. If you felt it only warranted a warning or quick comment from you, then you wait for a stoppage of play or when you are in front of his/her bench.

But you are arguing both sides of the coin. You say the POE/rule say "no standing" for assistant coaches but you then ignore the proper penalty phase of the POE/rule.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

While others have (correctly) told you that there is no official warning under FED rules, you should check with your local area / state to be sure. Last year, for example, IL *did* have an official warning for the HC being out fo the box.

Last year assn's in VA were given that option. This year there is no option for a warning.

[Junker]

My point of view, first of all, it's an 8th grade game. As long as the coach is up coaching and not being a butt, I don't have a huge problem with him. I would definitely NOT stop the game to sit him down unless I did it with a T. In this situation, I would take a second and tell the HC that I understand his assistant is coaching, but we need him on the bench. If he continues to get up, use the whistle and sit him down. Another thing to remember is that this is an 8th grade assistant. This is not the more professional coach you get at higher levels. He probably just got excited and wasn't thinking. Try to talk your way out of it if you can. Now, if an assistant at any level stands up to complain, whack them on site.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Junker

My point of view, first of all, it's an 8th grade game. As long as the coach is up coaching and not being a butt, I don't have a huge problem with him. I would definitely NOT stop the game to sit him down unless I did it with a T. In this situation, I would take a second and tell the HC that I understand his assistant is coaching, but we need him on the bench. If he continues to get up, use the whistle and sit him down. Another thing to remember is that this is an 8th grade assistant. This is not the more professional coach you get at higher levels. He probably just got excited and wasn't thinking. Try to talk your way out of it if you can. Now, if an assistant at any level stands up to complain, whack them on site.

It's an 8th grade game so you aren't going to enforce the bench rule, that is stupid. So when the next referee has him and he tells him to sit down he will say Junker let me stand up! It is against the rules in a 1st grade game and a HS game, enforce the rule.

[Junker]

It's not stupid and I didn't say don't enforce bench decorum. What I said was he stood to coach. Remind him to sit and move on. It's 8th grade and those players need to be coached. They are learning to play the game. If you read carefully I stated that if he's up complaining, take care of business immediately. To officiate well I think you have to develop game managment skills. If you are out there T'ing up an 8th grade assistant for trying to teach his players without asking him to sit first, you are going to be on that 8th grade game for quite some time.

[Chess Ref]

I like this thread. The issue of bench management. At Assoc. meetings we get the spiel from the Varsity refs about enforcing the "box". Lots of time spent on it. Us newer officials need to take charge of the benches and learn game management skills. Yada, yada,yada. I always hang round after my games and watch the Varsity guys. 85% have NO control of the box/benches. I have seen it all. Coaches rolling on the floor,on their knees begging for calls, running onn the court during a time out to yell at the ref. Basically everything up to and including doing a Linda Blair in public. And little if nothing is done about it. Rant off....
So last year I started working on communicating better and ENFORCING the box rules more consistently. Lo and behold my games were better played and my perception was they were more manageble. And ironically the better I communicated and ENFORCED the box rules the higher my ratings were. The varsity refs were like living vicariously through me.
***'t coaches get no leeway from me. I read somewher on this board they are to be considered the van driver. Seen and not heard.

I will admit that I Had 1 ***'t coach solve major head coach problem for me. The head coach was on the way out the door-1 T already and it was my early season generoisty that kept him from a 2nd. ***'t intervened asked me to give him 1 minute before allowing the coach to get himself Teed a 2 nd time. I did and didn't hear a peep from either one the rest of the night.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Junker

It's not stupid and I didn't say don't enforce bench decorum. What I said was he stood to coach. Remind him to sit and move on. It's 8th grade and those players need to be coached. They are learning to play the game. If you read carefully I stated that if he's up complaining, take care of business immediately. To officiate well I think you have to develop game managment skills. If you are out there T'ing up an 8th grade assistant for trying to teach his players without asking him to sit first, you are going to be on that 8th grade game for quite some time.

Junker this is what you wrote: My point of view, first of all, it's an 8th grade game. As long as the coach is up coaching and not being a butt, I don't have a huge problem with him.

It doesn't matter if he is coaching or complaining, he should be sitting.

[Junker]

Agreed, he needs to be on the bench. I must have been unclear. If he's up coaching his players, I'll ask the HC to get him on the bench. If he's up complaining, I'll sit him down with a T. Assistants are there to coach and as an esteemed forum member always states, we have to talk to Batman, but not Robin. My main point was that I would never stop the game to give a warning in a situation like this.

[deecee]

tome I hardly ever have any issues in my high school games. i make my line known clear and early. I think the 5 T's ive called in 4 years is a lot. I mean a T should be earned and most Ts can be avoided with preventative officiating.

you make a tough call and you know its tough and the last 3 similarly tough calls all went against the same coach -- well i report and I stay away from him -- why? because experience has taught me HE WILL BE man and if he wants to say something to me he will have to say it loud enough where its not just him and me that hear it.

There are some magic comments and words that will get them rung up asap but once again I have something working for me that helps -- size -- I dont intimidate but a lot of coaches are about half a foot to a foot shorter -- IMO it helps a lot when you are taller -- other reasons too.