The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 03:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
The Superintendent Husband

8th grade boys consolation game. 2nd quarter, I am trail table side. The assistant coach is up off the bench coaching at about this time before I could say coach have a seat. (being couteous) not whacking him!! His team steals the ball. So, I hit the whistle to stop play. I informed the head coach that his assistant needs to remain seated on the bench while the clock is running or its going to cost him the privilege of using the coaching box. We play on no problem the rest of the game.

After the game, it gets interesting.


AD: what happened with the Superintendent husband?
ME: who is that?
AD: the coach, you told he could not be up off the bench.
ME: I was being couteous by informing the head coach that his assistant could not be off the bench coaching.
AD: That was the Superintendent's husband she is upset that you told her husband to take a seat.
ME: I was being courteous it could have cost them a T. I elect not to issue one. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have been better off whacking him!!


Anyone would have handle it differently?
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 03:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
Why would you blow your whistle to stop play if the assistant is standing and coaching? If he's yelling at you that's one thing, but if he's just coaching 8th graders, just tell him to have a seat and let the play continue. There's a time and a place for stopping play - your situation doesn't sound like an appropriate one.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 03:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 359
At any level, YOU, as an official, MUST learn to communicate effectively with coach and players, as well as administrators . . . not to mention co-officials and your table crew.

I have to agree with Smitty . . . WHY would you stop the play to warn a coach, especially an assistant coach who is COACHING! Even if it were the Head Coach, WHY? Next time down the floor, as you go by, courteously remind the head coach that he is the only person allowed to stand during play, and that his/her assistant will need to sit down. And giving him a Technical Foul would have made the situation SO much worse. That is a TOOL you have at your disposal, but just because it is there doesn't mean you need to whip it out every chance you get.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 03:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Why would you blow your whistle to stop play if the assistant is standing and coaching? If he's yelling at you that's one thing, but if he's just coaching 8th graders, just tell him to have a seat and let the play continue. There's a time and a place for stopping play - your situation doesn't sound like an appropriate one.
Smiity, I could not agree with you more with one exception. He does not have to be yelling at me to get my attention. I look at bench decorum as part of game management.
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 03:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
You said he was "coaching" - you didn't say anything about him yelling. And even if he was, if all you were going to do is warn him, you should warn him without stopping play.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 04:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,505
Skip to ** at the bottom for the short version

Read on from here for the long version

this is almost as bad as a game I was coaching -- we get a steal near midcourt ball bounces in the front court our player in the back court reaches over and picks up ball -- (boys Freshmen) -- so we have a player in the backcour that hit the ball out of the offensive player the ball bounces in our frountcourt not and our player who is in the backcourt retrieves it.

Yes we have a fastbreak and the opposing coach and fans are yelling for backcourt -- I am happy we have a fastbreak (2on0) -- TWEET

wtf -- what just happened -- well the official decided to stop the game to explain to the coach and fans about the backcourt rule and the 3 points of contact -- he even went as far to fget on the ground and touch the backcourt with his hand and then the frouncourt so everyone knew the difference.

I was shocked and the only thing out of my mouth was "How could you stop the game and take away an uncontested layup attempt from us to Explain that rule (a little emphasis on explain)" -- this ref has about 4 years experience and is in my class in my association. His response "coach I have heard enough out of you so sit down for the rest of the half"

well needless to say I responded "you cannot tell me to sit down and you are yet to answer any of my 3 legitimate questions regarding calls you have made on one side of the floor and not the other" -- well after that comment I sat the rest of the game -- still cannot figure out why i got my T.

**part of game management is not stopping the game in instances like this. next time down the court if the assistant is still standing just mention to him (not the head coach) "coach are you aware that only the head coach can stand during the game" -- IMO if he was yelling instructions to the kids and coaching and sits right back down ignore it -- after all he is an assistant and sometimes you have to stand to get a players attention on the court and tell him what to do. Whacking him would lead to another technical for any decent head coach who would be extremly pi$$ed off especially since he was coaching and you just come in with a T.

Like others have said a T is a tool to aid -- used incorrectly its also a tool to get you out of the water into the fire.

***lol I guess there was not short version
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 04:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
You said he was "coaching" - you didn't say anything about him yelling. And even if he was, if all you were going to do is warn him, you should warn him without stopping play.
Smitty, I understand what you are saying. Without regards, if he was coaching or not he is not allowed to be up off the bench period.
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 04:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Send a message via AIM to Back In The Saddle Send a message via MSN to Back In The Saddle Send a message via Yahoo to Back In The Saddle
Stopping the game has already been addressed, so let me just throw out a potentially even more courteous suggestion. When you get that opportunity to address the problem with the head coach, don't give him a directive, involve him in solving your problem.

"Coach, I need your help. I can't have assistants up off the bench during play. Can you help me with that, please?"

As for the fact that the asst. is the super's hubby, isn't it really just too sad that even (self)important people have to follow the rules?

But in discussing it with the AD, who obviously feels some amount of pressure from his boss' boss, try to get the AD on your side: "I'm sorry it had to come to that, but we both know he can't be up like that. He's putting us both in a tough spot." Of course, not stopping the game, which has the unwanted effect of singling him out for unwanted attention, should help too.

No solution works every time or for every official. But if you can bring the coach or AD over to your side, form a little two person team to solve your collective problem, or at least get them to feel that it's yours and his collective problem even if you can't fix it, that person is more likely to respond positively than if it's mano a mano.

Just my $0.02
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 04:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
Smitty, I understand what you are saying. Without regards, if he was coaching or not he is not allowed to be up off the bench period.
Sounds to me like you just needed to assert your authority and were looking for a solution to that problem. If you choose to look at all rules as black and white, you are likely to achieve your goal of asserting your authority often.

Following your logic, why did you not T him up right then and there? A rule's a rule, after all...
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 04:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
Smitty, I understand what you are saying. Without regards, if he was coaching or not he is not allowed to be up off the bench period.
But it makes a big difference in the best way to handle it.

If the worst thing the assistant did was stand up to coach a player, address it at a naturaly stopping point....do not stop the game to deal with it...usually through the head coach. In fact, if the asst. coach merely stands up for 2-3 seconds and say a couple words to a player then sits, I'm likely to not even do anything.

If, however, the assistant was on you about a call, either let it go until the next dead ball and discuss it with the head coach or blow the whistle and T him. Don't blow the whistle just to warn the assistant.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 04:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
Skip to ** at the bottom for the short version

Read on from here for the long version

this is almost as bad as a game I was coaching -- we get a steal near midcourt ball bounces in the front court our player in the back court reaches over and picks up ball -- (boys Freshmen) -- so we have a player in the backcour that hit the ball out of the offensive player the ball bounces in our frountcourt not and our player who is in the backcourt retrieves it.

Yes we have a fastbreak and the opposing coach and fans are yelling for backcourt -- I am happy we have a fastbreak (2on0) -- TWEET

wtf -- what just happened -- well the official decided to stop the game to explain to the coach and fans about the backcourt rule and the 3 points of contact -- he even went as far to fget on the ground and touch the backcourt with his hand and then the frouncourt so everyone knew the difference.

I was shocked and the only thing out of my mouth was "How could you stop the game and take away an uncontested layup attempt from us to Explain that rule (a little emphasis on explain)" -- this ref has about 4 years experience and is in my class in my association. His response "coach I have heard enough out of you so sit down for the rest of the half"

well needless to say I responded "you cannot tell me to sit down and you are yet to answer any of my 3 legitimate questions regarding calls you have made on one side of the floor and not the other" -- well after that comment I sat the rest of the game -- still cannot figure out why i got my T.

**part of game management is not stopping the game in instances like this. next time down the court if the assistant is still standing just mention to him (not the head coach) "coach are you aware that only the head coach can stand during the game" -- IMO if he was yelling instructions to the kids and coaching and sits right back down ignore it -- after all he is an assistant and sometimes you have to stand to get a players attention on the court and tell him what to do. Whacking him would lead to another technical for any decent head coach who would be extremly pi$$ed off especially since he was coaching and you just come in with a T.

Like others have said a T is a tool to aid -- used incorrectly its also a tool to get you out of the water into the fire.

***lol I guess there was not short version

Short version, how many chances are an assistant coach allowed?
I know T's are a tool. I also stated I did not issue one knowing that I could have. Ater it was done, The approach in which I use was it an ideal one NO!!. Was it effective VERY?
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 04:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
Effective is a relative term. Using a sledgehammer to drive a nail into drywall is effective, too. What people are trying to tell you is that there are other effective ways to deal with that situation without stopping the game mid-play.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 04:30pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin
That is a TOOL you have at your disposal, but just because it is there doesn't mean you need to whip it out every chance you get.
"Dont whip it out every chance you get"? Interesting. Does that mean that you're telling officials to sometimes ignore the POE's in the back of the rule book.....specifically POE 5A in this year's rule book? As also opposed to POE 1D on the same subject in last year's rulebook too?

"Assistant coaches must be seated at all times except during time-outs, to attend to an injured player after being beckoned and to spontaneously react to a play. The rules that apply to a head coach to arise in certain situations(time-outs, confer with table personnel for a correctable error, dealing with disqualifications) do not apply to assistant coaches under any circumstances. Again, the fact that an assistant coach is "only coaching" has no bearing on the rule or enforcement".

Or am I misinterpreting your meaning?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 04:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
Keep in mind this was an 8th grade game.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 26, 2006, 04:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Sounds to me like you just needed to assert your authority and were looking for a solution to that problem. If you choose to look at all rules as black and white, you are likely to achieve your goal of asserting your authority often.

Following your logic, why did you not T him up right then and there? A rule's a rule, after all...

Good question, I asked myself the same question. I was not trying to assert my authority. Look, I am fully aware the approach I used was not ideal. I take ownership of that. I described my situation to see how many officials gives the assistant just as much latitude as the head coach.
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:16pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1