The Superintendent Husband

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Effective is a relative term. Using a sledgehammer to drive a nail into drywall is effective, too. What people are trying to tell you is that there are other effective ways to deal with that situation without stopping the game mid-play.

I agree with use of the word effective a litte over the top though in how you describe it. I got that too.

[deecee]

effective for a short period -- that game -- effective long term no way.

now everytime that head coach sees you he sees you as a harda$$ who cannot communicate and instead of trying to work with him you would rather boss him around.

how effective that method is is of course up for debate but i think its NOT effective.

lets say that's your stance and we are talking about HS -- now coaches are complaining about your "effectiveness" to their AD's who in turn start complaining about the same "effectiveness" to your board. Even though we like to think coaches have no say in us as officials we are totally wrong. Enough coaches complaining will have some effect why because no one wants headaches and all i see your "effectivness" doing is giving out headaches in this situation. But hey we have someone with the initals GW who shoots from the hips first and ask questions never so why cant we have an official that does the same.

Set em up, shoot em down true --

and to your question how many chances are an assistant coach allowed?

like i said if they are coaching and sit right back down I would lean toward infinite...if they are barking at me they get 0 chances -- either a T or next time I can which will be sooner rather than later I will address it with the head coach. Decent headcoaches know the score and and bench rules -- and most decent Headcoaches dont want assistants doing their job.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Short version, how many chances are an assistant coach allowed?

One.

We tell our officials to tell the head coaches in the pre-game talk that it is expected that they will be the only ones standing in the box when play is going on. If the assistants are up later, then they should tell the head coach the first chance that they get that he is now being warned for allowing that assistant to stand. Next time, call the "T" with no further second warning.

Personally, I can agree and understand about not immediately stopping play to deliver that warning, as long as they do deliver it fairly quickly.

Of course, as usual, mileage may vary across the country.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

like i said if they are coaching and sit right back down I would lean toward infinite.

Infinite?

Lah me......

You don't believe in POE's, do you?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But it makes a big difference in the best way to handle it.

If the worst thing the assistant did was stand up to coach a player, address it at a naturaly stopping point....do not stop the game to deal with it...usually through the head coach. In fact, if the asst. coach merely stands up for 2-3 seconds and say a couple words to a player then sits, I'm likely to not even do anything.

If, however, the assistant was on you about a call, either let it go until the next dead ball and discuss it with the head coach or blow the whistle and T him. Don't blow the whistle just to warn the assistant.

Camron, I understand that. Let me clear this up a little more. As Team B was advancing the ball into the frontcourt tableside in front of Team A bench the assistant was standing the entire time. My thoughts were as I get in front of the bench, I will inform the assitant that he needs to have a seat. However, the ball was stolen right in front of me and his by Team A. This is when, I stopped the game and informed the coach his assistant needs to have a seat. So, what I am gathering from the replies. I should have waited until my next trip down to inform the coach his assistant needs to have a seat. I was already there handle it then.

[deecee]

some officials need this kind of black and white language however once again if my partner/s want to go by the book and insist this is an important piece of the game to manage that way I will certainly follow that however I do not feel that this is something to be managed most of the time -- like I said if the assistant is just getting up to tell timmy to hustle or pass the ball then sitting right back down I am not going to address that.

just me -- you can go ahead and do what you do and that is fine -- i do not think any less of you as an official. We just have different ways to manage games and people and what works for you might not work for me.

I have never had any issues with coaches, head or assisstant. If an assistant needs to be addressed I will at the earliest convienence. I have only T's up 2 coaches in 4 years of HS ball -- one was because of the assistant and one was the HC in a blowout because he was just frustraded and that T I tried to run from it as much as possible but hey in the end he earned it 100% no question about it.

Now let me add this disclaimer because so many people tend to read very much into things -- if the assistant is up more than the head coach or even as much as the HC then I would address it. If both HC and AC are standing I will address that. That usually gets the AC down for the whole game and most games the assistant stands up about once or twice. So in reality this isnt really an issue.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by deecee

effective for a short period -- that game -- effective long term no way.

now everytime that head coach sees you he sees you as a harda$$ who cannot communicate and instead of trying to work with him you would rather boss him around.

how effective that method is is of course up for debate but i think its NOT effective.

lets say that's your stance and we are talking about HS -- now coaches are complaining about your "effectiveness" to their AD's who in turn start complaining about the same "effectiveness" to your board. Even though we like to think coaches have no say in us as officials we are totally wrong. Enough coaches complaining will have some effect why because no one wants headaches and all i see your "effectivness" doing is giving out headaches in this situation. But hey we have someone with the initals GW who shoots from the hips first and ask questions never so why cant we have an official that does the same.

Set em up, shoot em down true --

and to your question how many chances are an assistant coach allowed?

like i said if they are coaching and sit right back down I would lean toward infinite...if they are barking at me they get 0 chances -- either a T or next time I can which will be sooner rather than later I will address it with the head coach. Decent headcoaches know the score and and bench rules -- and most decent Headcoaches dont want assistants doing their job.

deecee, that is difference between us. I do not mind if an AD do not want to hire me again. After, the AD and I spoke about the matter and I identified to him the rule so that, he could informed his Superintendent that the team could have easily being assessed a technical. He understood why I took the approach in which I did.

[Smitty]

However you try and justify your approach, it was still wrong. There is nothing in the rules or POE's that allows you to stop a game mid-play to issue a warning to an assistant coach. T him up or speak to him while play is going on. But don't ever blow the whistle and stop play for this. That is a very bad approach.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

One.

We tell our officials to tell the head coaches in the pre-game talk that it is expected that they will be the only ones standing in the box when play is going on. If the assistants are up later, then they should tell the head coach the first chance that they get that he is now being warned for allowing that assistant to stand. Next time, call the "T" with no further second warning.

Personally, I can agree and understand about not immediately stopping play to deliver that warning, as long as they do deliver it fairly quickly.

Of course, as usual, mileage may vary across the country.

I got that, I understand. One question though.

Once, the official (s) warn the coach about the assitant. Is that identified in the book as an official warning?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I got that, I understand. One question though.

Once, the official (s) warn the coach about the assitant. Is that identified in the book as an official warning?

No!! Those warnings are clearly defined in the rule book.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Smitty

However you try and justify your approach, it was still wrong. There is nothing in the rules or POE's that allows you to stop a game mid-play to issue a warning to an assistant coach. T him up or speak to him while play is going on. But don't ever blow the whistle and stop play for this. That is a very bad approach.

I do not believe in any of my responses I said I was right in my approach. If you kindly read my response to CAMRON you would see why I did it that way.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Smitty

No!! Those warnings are clearly defined in the rule book.

I am fully aware of that. I ask JR the question to get a better understanding on how the officials in his area handle their warning. Let, me bring you up to speed GUY!

(1) The officials in his area give the head coaches a courtesy warning in the meeting with the coaches about who is authorized to stand while the clock is running. (not required)
(2). They violate during game they issue another warning about the box. I was asking do they identify that one in the book as an official warning.

[Smitty]

The answer will be the same. No!!!

[deecee]

to the best of my understanding the only warning issued in the book are the delay of game types.

[bigdogrunnin]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

"Dont whip it out every chance you get"? Interesting. Does that mean that you're telling officials to sometimes ignore the POE's in the back of the rule book.....specifically POE 5A in this year's rule book? As also opposed to POE 1D on the same subject in last year's rulebook too?. . . Or am I misinterpreting your meaning?

Hi JR. The answer is NO. We are not ignoring the POE's in the Rule Book, and we are not playing down their importance either. We are using communication as a way to manage the situation and the game. In fact, I am one of the few officials in my Chapter and in our area that actually enforces the coaching box, and bench decorum. (Several of our more "esteemed" officials have gone as far as to chastise me for being such a stickler of the rules.)

In the example, the Asst. Coach was up coaching, for how long I don't know. If he was up for very long though, he definitely would be given a warning. How long is that? Depends on each individual official.

Personally, if I make my way up and down the floor (2-man) L to T, back to L, and I am on my way back to the T again and that Asst. Coach is still standing, I will say something to the Head Coach about their assistant(s). Next time the issue arises, they get the "T." I will admit though, that I am very hesitant to give out "T" in that situation. I would rather talk a coach out of a call like that. I know that it is the rule, but . . . that is just me.

TrueRookie . . . to answer about a coach's warning being placed in the book, the answer is no. I am aware of no specific rule which covers this issue. Some officials do this to keep a "written" log of the fact.