granting time-out as player goes oob

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

These are the words I was waiting for someone to use. By rule, you must grant a time-out request which is properly made. When a player lands out of bounds before the time-out is granted, by rule it is a violation, because his request did not cause the ball to become dead. The bottom line is, I don't see how you can have it both ways.

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

The player requests the TO before the violation occurs. You don't penalize him for failing to blow your whistle quickly enough.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree. The better solution would be just to revert to the old rule and forget about letting the head coach call a TO. Hell, even the FED is finally starting to admit that they screwed up when they changed this rule, as per the POE in this year's rule book.

GRANTING TIME_OUTS. "Coaches attempting to call a time-out during playing action are a continuing problem. When player control is lost, officials must concentrate on playing action while attempting to determine if a time-out should be granted. Coaches should recognize that a request for a time-out does not guarantee that a time-out will be granted until player control is clearly established. Officials should not grant a time-out until player control is clearly established."

Add that on to the fact that you also have to verify that it is indeed the head coach who is requesting the TO, and not an assistant coach, sub, trainer or some doofus fan sitting in the second row behind the bench. It all adds up to a really stoopid rule imo. And a stoopid rule that is also a pain-in-the-butt to administer.

But that still wouldn't fix the issue at hand. Any player on the court might still request the timeout just before another player on his/her team violates.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

The player requests the TO before the violation occurs. You don't penalize him for failing to blow your whistle quickly enough.

IMNSHO, the time out is "granted" when the official hears/sees the request and recognizes that it is a timeout request...even if it takes a moment to put air in the whistle.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

The player requests the TO before the violation occurs. You don't penalize him for failing to blow your whistle quickly enough.

The concept as you explain it is not difficult to grasp. My question, which perhaps I did not fully understand myself, is whether when the rule was written that it was significant that the request itself, or when it was recognized, was not listed among the things which make the ball become dead. According to everyone, this is not significant. Okay, I give up and accept this. But, along the way this led to impromptu explanations of when the timeout is considered to be granted. In a nutshell, when they need it granted quickly, it's done. But, when they request a time-out after a violation has already occurred, we have the flexibility to double-check the request and then not grant it at all. Is there another set of circumstances in the rules which is comparable to this? I haven't been able to think of one.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But, when they request a time-out after a violation has already occurred, we have the flexibility to double-check the request and then not grant it at all. Is there another set of circumstances in the rules which is comparable to this? I haven't been able to think of one.

Because sometimes we know a coach requested a time-out to avoid a violation, turnover, or held-ball situation but their request came too late. So for game management and/or courtesy purposes we ask the coach if they still want their time-out. Most of the time they say forget about it. But every blue moon the coach may say "I still want it".

Not everything we do on the court can be found in "black & white" in the rulebook.