Mechanics Question

[PilotUmp]

Gentlemen,

A situation came up in a FED game yesterday that I was working. I was in the field, and on the front end of a double play, the throw pulled the 2nd baseman off the bag. He never came back onto the bag, and the runner, thinking he was out, overran the bag after touching it.

What would be the proper mechanic for this?

[BigUmp56]

I'm sure you meant the throw pulled the fielder off of the bag. On any account, the correct mechanic is to signal safe and verbalize "safe, off the bag." Then make a sweeping motion with both arms extended, held one above the other, away from the bag.


Tim.

[blueump]

Wouldn't this be a "no call" till at least the runner is tagged or leaves live ball territory?

[LMan]

No, U1 should signal 'safe' if he reached the base prior to the throw's arrival (or a pulled foot, as is here). The runner has 'acquired' the base until/unless he is tagged or an appeal is made.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by blueump

Wouldn't this be a "no call" till at least the runner is tagged or leaves live ball territory?

Bule:

This is from Evans:


Professional umpires are trained to render the "safe" signal and voice declaration at first base even though the batter-runner missed the base but is considered past the base when the tag of first base is made. This becomes an appeal play and the batter-runner would subsequently be called out for failure to properly touch the base. This is the proper mechanical procedure at all bases involving force plays. On plays which require a tag, professional umpires are instructed to make no call until the runner legally touches the base or the runner is tagged before legally touching the base.


Tim.

[PilotUmp]

That was my next question, actually...that's good to know if something like that happens at first. However, in this situation, the play was at 2nd base.

[wsttxump]

Originally Posted by PilotUmp

Gentlemen,

A situation came up in a FED game yesterday that I was working. I was in the field, and on the front end of a double play, the throw pulled the 2nd baseman off the bag. He never came back onto the bag, and the runner, thinking he was out, overran the bag after touching it.

What would be the proper mechanic for this?

Was this a 2 or 3 man crew? I am going to verbalize safe and turn with the ball for the play at first.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PilotUmp

That was my next question, actually...that's good to know if something like that happens at first. However, in this situation, the play was at 2nd base.

Take a look at the text I emboldened in my post. This mechanic applies to all bases where there's a force. All plays on a runner deserve a call. The only delayed call would be on a runner missing homeplate. Then you need to wait just a second and see if the runner immediately scrambles back or heads to his dugout. If he scrambles back, he must be tagged to be put out. If he heads to his dugout he can be called out on appeal.



Tim.

[PilotUmp]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Take a look at the text I emboldened in my post. This mechanic applies to all bases where there's a force. All plays on a runner deserve a call. The only delayed call would be on a runner missing homeplate. Then you need to wait just a second and see if the runner immediately scrambles back or heads to his dugout. If he scrambles back, he must be tagged to be put out. If he heads to his dugout he can be called out on appeal.



Tim.

You're right...I didn't read it well enough...thanks for the help!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by wsttxump

Was this a 2 or 3 man crew? I am going to verbalize safe and turn with the ball for the play at first.

If the subsequent play is at first, I'm calling and signaling safe at second, turning and making the call at first.

Then I'm turning back to second, signaling safe again and then sweep the arms to indicate the fielder was off the bag (assuming R1 is on second at this time, of course).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PWL

Under FED rules he would merely have to go over and touch the base by accident and the runner would be out if the play were part of continuing action. He can also appeal verbally with the ball by stepping on the base. He can also tag the runner off the base.

I thought FED removed the "accidental appeal / force"?

BTW-I saw a college umpire working the Texas-Nebraska game Saturday who gave no call on a no foot on the base and a runner who missed the base. He gave the safe signal when the runner returned to first.

I saw that too. I'm hoping Dave Yeast will post it with an explanation of whether that was the proper mechanic, or whther the Evans mechanic is the proper one.

[UmpJM]

bob j.,

I believe the current proper FED ruling is that "accidental appeals" are NOT supported, EXCEPT on a live ball, continuous action accidental appeal of a missed "forced to" base - then the accidental appeal IS supported.

I think. Sometimes FED rulings make my head hurt.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

bob j.,

I believe the current proper FED ruling is that "accidental appeals" are NOT supported, EXCEPT on a live ball, continuous action accidental appeal of a missed "forced to" base - then the accidental appeal IS supported.

I think. Sometimes FED rulings make my head hurt.

JM

JM, I believe you are correct. Case Book play 8-2-3 supports your interpretation. For some reason, the FED considers the play at first base a "force" play, while OBR does not.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

JM, I believe you are correct. Case Book play 8-2-3 supports your interpretation. For some reason, the FED considers the play at first base a "force" play, while OBR does not.

But, 8.4.2A and 8.4.2B do NOT allow the "accidental force." Plus, I think the wording in 8.2.3B is inconsistent with the play. I think 8.2.3B is "wrong".

(Finally -- Steve -- please follow the FED standard and use "dots" for cases; "dashes" for rules.)

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Bule:

This is from Evans:


Professional umpires are trained to render the "safe" signal and voice declaration at first base even though the batter-runner missed the base but is considered past the base when the tag of first base is made. This becomes an appeal play and the batter-runner would subsequently be called out for failure to properly touch the base. This is the proper mechanical procedure at all bases involving force plays. On plays which require a tag, professional umpires are instructed to make no call until the runner legally touches the base or the runner is tagged before legally touching the base.


Tim.

I may be missing something in the direction of this thread, but in the original sitch there is no appeal play. The runner overran the base after touching it.
Proper mechanic is simply a safe call. (explanation optional)
After that there are only 3 choices.
1. Runner realizes his mistake and returns to base.
2. He's tagged out
3. Out for abandonment