alignment penalty

[Roger Greene]

NHFS rules apply.

Situation:

Serving team is out of alignment. (Proper server, teamates overlaped somewhere on court.)

Receiving team is out of alignment.

At contact of legal serve, R1 and R2 both whistle for alignment fouls.

What is the correct penalty and your reasoning/rule cite?

[BlitzkriegBob]

I'll take a stab at this before Jan or Felix comes in to give us the correct answer. I would rule this as a double foul occuring during a live ball and award a replay (Rule 9-7-2 with Penalty 2a). I would declare this a live ball under Rule 9-3-1, even though the rules infractions would be occur at the same time, making it a dead ball at that point.

[MCBear]

Nice try and well-reasoned, Bob, but incorrect. Read and learn, Grasshopper!

There are two parts to this situation -

Part 1:
Rule 8-2
ART. 5 . . . A serve is illegal and the ball remains dead if the server:

d. Is out of serving order or is from the wrong team; (Signal 1, Illegal Alignment/Improper Server; 6-3-PENALTY 2)

Part 2:
ART. 7 . . . When a receiving team player is out of position on the serve and:

a. The ball is served illegally, the serving team is penalized;

PENALTIES:

1. For an illegal serve, a service fault, or the receiving team being out of position when there is an illegal serve, loss of rally/point is awarded to the receiving team.

Thus, only the serving team's fault is penalized due to the illegal serve.

From page 28 of the 2009-10 NFHS Volleyball Rules.

[Andy]

Jan - the OP notes that the server was in the correct spot on the lineup, but the infraction was among other players on the serving team.

The rule you cited does not include this situation.

I side with Bob that this is a simultaneous foul by both teams at the same instant and a replay is in order.

I'm open to being convinced otherwise.....

[bbsbvb83]

Originally Posted by Andy

I side with Bob that this is a simultaneous foul by both teams at the same instant and a replay is in order.

This could be a minor point, but I think you would be arguing that this is a double foul. Simultaneous fouls are more than one foul committed by the same team at the same time.

[FMadera]

I'll play devil's advocate:

"Out of serving order" doesn't necessarily mean, to me, "illegal alignment." I can easily read that as "wrong server." A muddled interpretation of that phrase could certainly change one's view on how the penalty should be applied. Had they meant that the serving team had to be aligned correctly, they certainly could have indicated that. But...they didn't.

Correct server. Team A is overlapped at the legal contact of serve. Team B is overlapped at the legal contact of serve. The "serving order" was correct, in that we indeed had the correct server, so...replay could be a conceivable option.

Another example of less than clear wording.

[MCBear]

This humble one will attempt to correct his previous error as learned colleagues have shown that "I blew it big time!!!!"

I should have cited Rule 6:
ART. 3 . . .At the moment of serve:

b. All players, including the libero, shall be in correct serving order.

PENALTIES:

1. For illegal alignment, loss of rally/point is awarded to the opponent for:

a. Overlapping by players other than the server at the moment a legal serve occurs;

and then Rule 8-2:

PENALTIES:

2. For the receiving team being out of position when there is a service fault, a point is awarded to the serving team.

To make it short and sweet...as Bob so astutely pointed out in his post, this is a double foul = replay.

I continue to learn from the great store of knowledge and wisdom of most learned colleagues!