overlapping position help

[weatherok]

HELP!!! I am a 12 year basketabll official and I am getting into Volleyball. I am reading the rule book and case book and came across RULE 6.3.2b

WHat the hell is going on here??? Can someone please simplify this thing. The rules use a phrase "corresponding row" with the positions RF and RB being closer to the right sideline. This sounds simple until you get into examples on page 16 of the case book, I can't figure this out for anything.

IT GETS WORSE....on page 74 of the case book it plainly states Player RB must be properly aligned with RF and CB. WELL guess what they never state what that proper alignment.

I officiated volleyball in intramurals in college and it was never this complicated, I know the game but not this position rule. The state is begging for Volleyball officials, with rules like this I can see why new officials stay away.

I am interested in officiating but can someone please explain this to me.
Here or email me at [email protected]

thanks

[Brian Watson]

Draw a court on a piece of paper and place the "payers" in a regular position, three in the front three in the back.

Now, draw arrows toward every player that is diretly to the left or right, and front and back. These are the areas where you need to worry about for alignment.

Let's look only at the RB player, he cannot be any closer to the net, than the RF player. The CB player cannot be any closer to the right sideline than the RB player. These are the only two players the RB has to be in alignment with.

The center players, obviously have more areas where they can get out of alignment, but this should help you understand the rule. Basically, you need to maintain your position on the floor.

[PaREF]

Wow! I see what you mean about the case book. I've been officiating volleyball for about 15 years and I can barely make heads or tails of those drawings! Brian did a good job of illustrating the positions. You can use the picture on page 74 of the case book. However...

Illustrations will not teach you how to recognize proper service order. You will have to watch some games with real people to understand how it works. Learning how to recognize proper positions is (IMHO) the second-hardest task for a new official to master (the first is recognizing ball handling fouls). Three suggestions to help you learn this rule;

1. At a chapter (or organization) meeting, go to a volleyball court and use 6 officials to line up in different serve-receive patterns. Have a veteran official explain what to look for (identify setter, identify front row and back row players, etc.). Using a line up card will help you immensely.

2. Watch some games before you start officiating. Contact your local YMCA or your fellow officials to find out where and when you can catch a couple games (rec leagues, USAV, etc.). If you have questions, you should have time between games or matches to talk to the official (hopefully s/he knows the rules!).

3. Play the game. I'm not suggesting trying out for the Olympics! I officiate co-ed rec leagues throughout the year and the ages and abilities of the players vary tremendously. Many teams are made up of players over 40 (or 50) years old who play more for enjoyment and exercise than the need to win. Actually playing the game will teach you quicker than anything else. I coach 9th & 10th grade boys who have never played volleyball before. It usually takes them only about two practices before they get a handle on the positioning.

You are absolutely right about needing new volleyball officials. Here in Pa. we are very short of officials. In our chapter we have some officials who do basketball and decided to try volleyball. The ones who put in some time to learn the game are doing very well. The ones who don't, aren't. Good luck in the upcoming season!

[rcwilco]

I cannot help you much with your question but it appears there were some good answers. I also have done other sports, basketball and soccer, for years adn am going to try volleyball this fall. I did a couple of youth games this spring and was interested enough to try high school adn back way off of the soccer end of things. It is interresting that I have met quite a few basketball refs this summer at camps and around, who are doing the same thing. I am going backpacking this weekend and am gong to try and make some more sense out of the books. Good luck.

[williebfree]

I too am a Basketball official that has added on Volleyball officiating. I was constantly getting calls to do volleyball and I was looking for something productive to do in the fall so it was a nice fit.

I agree that you should get some observation with a veteran official. Really helped to boost my confidence. Rest assured, the volleyball fans are much more quiet than basketball fans. Not nearly as many "experts" in the stands.

[SDUMP]

Another great thing to do is try to get up to your local high school during one of their practices. As the coach is working on serve receive drills, you will really get to see the positioning, especially as they rotate and the setter starts hiding and moving on the contact of the serve.
Talking with the coach will also help you figure out the positioning - especially if you can watch from a higher angle.
Good luck and a piece of advice, if you do think you see an overlap and are ready to call it, make sure you are 110% sure, then call it. Nothing hurts your credibility more than calling it when it isn't there.

[devdog69]

Ok, I am not alone in the "basketball offical picking up volleyball" club. I signed up last year but after picking up the rule book for a couple of hours, gave it the "yeah, right" heave right in the corner. Only after getting called to do some JH matches did I decide maybe it wasn't too hard, now I already have a decent schedule for this season, including some varsity matches. It is much easier to break in than basketball.

Now for the questions. The first question I have about the alignment restrictions is probably a stupid one, but do the restrictions only apply at the time of the serve or do they continue throughout the rally? Do they apply to both teams or only the serving team? Do they apply to the server (RB)? If so, when, i.e., not at the serve, but after? #29 on the NFHS test says "Illegal Alignment Occurs when, at the moment of the serve, the CB on the serving team is nearer the right sideline than the server (RB)". I have false but I am really just guessing, cant' find anything definitive so far.

I am working at it, but like some others, I have a lot to learn. Going to a clinic a week from Saturday, so that should help also. Thanks for the help, more questions will follow, I promise. How much overlapping occurs at the high school level, and how much is it called?

[SDUMP]

The more you work, the easier it will get.

As far as the server, there are no overlapping restrictions on her or the CB, since the server is outside the court. After saying that, the other five have to stay in alignment, but that isn't normally a problem because they will position themselves as close to the position they will play during the point as they can.
All restrictions end on contact of the serve. You will notice the setter hiding behind a passer and running to the right front on service contact. There are really no restrictions during the point, just that back row players can't attack in front of the 10-foot line or participate in a block.
At the high school level in SD, overlapping does occur but normally it isn't intentional - trying to gain an advantage - it sometimes is just as confusing to the girls as it is to the officials.

[devdog69]

Ok, that helps some. However, if the RB, who is the server has no overlapping restrictions... maybe a lightbulb just came on. There could be restricitons on the RB on the receiving team, right?, just not on the RB of the serving team? So question 31, which says "Illegal alignment occurs when, at the moment of serve, while stacking to the left, the RB is nearer the center line than the RF" means what? I am thinking that means of the receiving team and is an illegal alignment, correct?

[Brian Watson]

Rule of thumb, there are no restrictions on the person serving, only. Therefore, you are right, the RB of the receiving team can be out of alignment. And, you do see this a lot, when the CB moves up toward the net, the RB slides over to fill in, and BAM! overlap.

I would say this question is true.

Break it down. Where can a RF/RB overlap occur? If the RF is closer to the endline than the RB or if the RB is closer to the center line than the RF. In this case, it sounds like the RB is too far forward.

[SoapBox Moment] If you have aspirations to move up to NCAA or USAVB this call gets de-emphasized quite a bit. The fed wants you to call it if the girls are a centimeter overlaped, where in all of the other rule sets it better be glaring, obvious, and with people grossly out of order or trying to gain an advantage to call. Basically, it is like a 3 second count in hoops, it is there, but you only pull it out sparingly. Frankly, I think the fed places too much importance on this. As new officials you should be working on becoming consistant with your handling calls, trusting your eyes and not your ears to identify touches (and watching the rotation of the ball!), anticipating what is going to happen, knowing when to over-rule a line judge or your 2R, and trusting your 1R when you get over ruled. There is this huge perception Voleyball is easy, because it is not a physical effort for officials, but I think it is 10 times harder than basketball. Then, fed makes it harder by throwing red herrings like overlap at new officials.

[End SoapBox Moment]

In a nutshell, know this, but don't obsess. Things like substitution, toss and catch, 4 hits vs. a block, non-playable areas, and time out rules are more important, happen more often than this, and are easily mis-applied by new officials.

[PaREF]

Devdog:

Good for you to give volleyball a try! Glad to see that you are going to attend a clinic. You should get some valuable tips which will help you get started.

As I said before, figuring out overlapping is the second-hardest rule for a new official to master (with ball-handling calls being the first). I have to agree with Brian's soapbox statement. To add one more point, usually the only person in the gym who knows if a team is overlapping is the official. So if you miss the call, no one will complain. I have been officiating for over 15 years and have never heard a coach complain about the other team overlapping. That is not to say you shouldn't call it when you see it. Just like Brian said - don't obsess about it.

As far as how often I call it, I probably average one or two overlap calls per every JV match. The new kids take a while to know where they are supposed to line up. I usually only call a couple of overlaps per season in the varsity matches.

One last point to add; I agree that people think officiating volleyball is much easier than other sports which require the official to move. But, I think the main reason is that volleyball coaches and players are MUCH less adversarial (and more knowlegeable of the rules) than basketball, football, or baseball coaches, players, and fans.

[rcwilco]

I think this is going to be a lot of fun having a group of us "converts" learning the ropes together. I start my training classes here in Seattle in two weeks and then I guess into the season and JV games. It sounds like they are pretty short handed so I am hoping to get some good experience right off of the bat. I too will have some questions. I have one more basketball camp and then i can really focus on vlleyball.

[Brian Watson]

Originally posted by PaREF
Devdog:

Good for you to give volleyball a try! Glad to see that you are going to attend a clinic. You should get some valuable tips which will help you get started.

As I said before, figuring out overlapping is the second-hardest rule for a new official to master (with ball-handling calls being the first). I have to agree with Brian's soapbox statement. To add one more point, usually the only person in the gym who knows if a team is overlapping is the official. So if you miss the call, no one will complain. I have been officiating for over 15 years and have never heard a coach complain about the other team overlapping. That is not to say you shouldn't call it when you see it. Just like Brian said - don't obsess about it.

As far as how often I call it, I probably average one or two overlap calls per every JV match. The new kids take a while to know where they are supposed to line up. I usually only call a couple of overlaps per season in the varsity matches.

One last point to add; I agree that people think officiating volleyball is much easier than other sports which require the official to move. But, I think the main reason is that volleyball coaches and players are MUCH less adversarial (and more knowlegeable of the rules) than basketball, football, or baseball coaches, players, and fans.

That is a great point I forgot. You rarely, if ever, run into a volleyball coach who does not know the rule.

Now, like me sometimes, they may confuse Fed, USA, and NCAA, but it is not like basketball, these guys and gals know their stuff.

I think it is because most did play club ball and in USAVB it is a rule, to know the rules as a participant.