The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Volleyball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 28, 2009, 09:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Scorekeeping Question

NCAA Rules.

Player # 4 enters for player # 11, but does not go through the usual substitution routine -- she just runs on and #11 runs off -- much like they would do if one of the players was the libero. R2 (nor R1) notices.

# 4 now serves (it is the "correct" spot -- # 11 was due to serve).

1) If the scorekeeper notices this before the becon for serve, should he say anything? If so, what?

2) If the scorekeeper doesn't notice until the ball is contacted, what should he do?

3) What is the notation on the scoresheet?

4) Is this a "substitution?" (one of the 12 allowed) If not, is the team allowed to now "officially" make the substitution? (Even if it's a loss of serve, the team wants #4 in the back row instead of #11)

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 29, 2009, 04:19am
Resident VB Rules Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose, CA - the Capital of Silicon Valley
Posts: 481
Send a message via AIM to MCBear Send a message via MSN to MCBear Send a message via Yahoo to MCBear Send a message via Skype™ to MCBear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jenkins
NCAA Rules.

Player # 4 enters for player # 11, but does not go through the usual substitution routine -- she just runs on and #11 runs off -- much like they would do if one of the players was the libero. Neither R2 (nor R1) notices.

# 4 now serves (it is the "correct" spot -- # 11 was due to serve).

1) If the scorekeeper notices this before the beckon for serve, should he say anything? If so, what?

2) If the scorekeeper doesn't notice until the ball is contacted, what should he do?

3) What is the notation on the scoresheet?

4) Is this a "substitution?" (one of the 12 allowed) If not, is the team allowed to now "officially" make the substitution? (Even if it's a loss of serve, the team wants #4 in the back row instead of #11)
#1 & #2 - No. 4 is an illegal sub, so the scorekeeper should know the wrong server is going to serve, but must wait until the illegal service actually occurs. As soon as No. 4 contacts the ball for service, the scorekeeper sounds a horn or whistle (or verbally notifies the second referee).

#3 - A loss of rally (R) is recorded in a square in the scoring section on the line for the player who should have served (No. 11), and the next point is slashed in the opponent's running score and written in their scoring section with no other associated symbol. Since #4 is also a wrong server, on the next available line of the SANCTIONS box, record 4 (the incorrect server) followed by 11 (the player who should have served) in the WS column, enter either A or B in the A/B column, and record the score, noting the score of the team at fault first. #11 must return to the court, no substitution is charged since #4 was on the court illegally and the set continues.

#4 - An illegal sub NEVER counts as one the team's 12 subs. If it has been recorded, once the illegal sub is discovered, it is removed. Then, the coach may request a sub to make it legal - #4 in, #11 out following normal substitution procedure.
__________________
Jan G. Filip - San Jose, CA
EBVOA Rules Interpreter Emeritus
NCS Volleyball Officials Coordinating Committee Recorder
CIF State Volleyball State Championships Referee (2005), Scorekeeper (2006-2007) & Libero Tracker (2010)
PAVO State Referee (2014) / PAVO Certified Scorekeeper (2014) / PAVO Certified Line Judge (2012)
USAV Junior National Referee (resigned 2013) / USAV National Scorekeeper (2014)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 29, 2009, 06:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCBear View Post
#1 & #2 - No. 4 is an illegal sub, so the scorekeeper should know the wrong server is going to serve, but must wait until the illegal service actually occurs. As soon as No. 4 contacts the ball for service, the scorekeeper sounds a horn or whistle (or verbally notifies the second referee).
Thanks. That's what I did, including the rest of the scorekeeping. I blew the whistle when the serve was contaced. R2 "gently admonished" me that I was just to tell her during the rally --not to blow a whistle or sound a horn. Do you have a refernece for using the sounding device?

On the scorekeeping, I just wasn't sure if it was a Wrong Server or some other infraction.

What would I do is #4 entered for #11 improperly, but didn't serve (but I noticed and neither R did)?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 29, 2009, 01:08pm
Resident VB Rules Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose, CA - the Capital of Silicon Valley
Posts: 481
Send a message via AIM to MCBear Send a message via MSN to MCBear Send a message via Yahoo to MCBear Send a message via Skype™ to MCBear
Bob, R2 is guilty of incorrect procedure...see page 134 of the current NCAA Rules starting with the 7th paragraph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jenkins
What would I do if #4 entered for #11 improperly, but didn't serve (but I noticed and neither R did)?
Same procedure: as soon as you notice the illegal sub, notify the R2. If it is while the player is subbing in, it is a Team Delay sanction (TDW if no previous delay during the set, TDP [Red Card] if they have already been assessed a TDW). Make sure you record the info in the Sanctions box.

If you catch it during play, notify the R2 at the conclusion of the rally because the team will be assessed a LOR for having an illegal player on the court. You will record the info in the Comments section. #4 must leave the court and #11 must reenter or #4 may legally sub in for #11.
__________________
Jan G. Filip - San Jose, CA
EBVOA Rules Interpreter Emeritus
NCS Volleyball Officials Coordinating Committee Recorder
CIF State Volleyball State Championships Referee (2005), Scorekeeper (2006-2007) & Libero Tracker (2010)
PAVO State Referee (2014) / PAVO Certified Scorekeeper (2014) / PAVO Certified Line Judge (2012)
USAV Junior National Referee (resigned 2013) / USAV National Scorekeeper (2014)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 29, 2009, 09:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 183
Does all of this apply to FED?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 30, 2009, 12:09am
Resident VB Rules Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose, CA - the Capital of Silicon Valley
Posts: 481
Send a message via AIM to MCBear Send a message via MSN to MCBear Send a message via Yahoo to MCBear Send a message via Skype™ to MCBear
Bishop...NO...this thread is all about NCAA scoring, not NFHS. Ya gotta read, son, ya gotta read, I say (in my best Foghorn Leghorn voice).
__________________
Jan G. Filip - San Jose, CA
EBVOA Rules Interpreter Emeritus
NCS Volleyball Officials Coordinating Committee Recorder
CIF State Volleyball State Championships Referee (2005), Scorekeeper (2006-2007) & Libero Tracker (2010)
PAVO State Referee (2014) / PAVO Certified Scorekeeper (2014) / PAVO Certified Line Judge (2012)
USAV Junior National Referee (resigned 2013) / USAV National Scorekeeper (2014)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 30, 2009, 07:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCBear View Post
Bob, R2 is guilty of incorrect procedure...see page 134 of the current NCAA Rules starting with the 7th paragraph.
Thanks -- I couldn't find that during a quick perusal between matches the other night.

One more from yesterday:

Libero #2 enters for #11 n the back row and proceeds to serve. But, it's #12's turn to serve. (#12 is still in the lineup).

So, obviously a wrong server.

But, is the libero now tied to the serving position of #11 or #12?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 30, 2009, 11:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 183
Foggy

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCBear View Post
Bishop...NO...this thread is all about NCAA scoring, not NFHS. Ya gotta read, son, ya gotta read, I say (in my best Foghorn Leghorn voice).
I said, I said....Thank ya.....
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 30, 2009, 02:35pm
Resident VB Rules Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose, CA - the Capital of Silicon Valley
Posts: 481
Send a message via AIM to MCBear Send a message via MSN to MCBear Send a message via Yahoo to MCBear Send a message via Skype™ to MCBear
Bob, since the Libero did not serve for a legal server, unless she has previously served in the set, she is considered not to have served at all - so she is tied to neither - and is free to serve for any legal server.

1 - In your scenario, since the Libero is serving for a wrong server, you will NOT triangle the Serving Order Number on service contact.
2 - You will put a square with an R on the service line of the proper server.
3 - You will enter 12/11 in the WS column of the Sanctions box, designate Team A or B and enter the score.
4 - Finally, you will slash the next point in the opponent's running score column and enter the LOR point in the serving area for the next server.
__________________
Jan G. Filip - San Jose, CA
EBVOA Rules Interpreter Emeritus
NCS Volleyball Officials Coordinating Committee Recorder
CIF State Volleyball State Championships Referee (2005), Scorekeeper (2006-2007) & Libero Tracker (2010)
PAVO State Referee (2014) / PAVO Certified Scorekeeper (2014) / PAVO Certified Line Judge (2012)
USAV Junior National Referee (resigned 2013) / USAV National Scorekeeper (2014)
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 30, 2009, 03:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCBear View Post
Bob, since the Libero did not serve for a legal server, unless she has previously served in the set, she is considered not to have served at all - so she is tied to neither - and is free to serve for any legal server.
oops -- then we got that one wrong. We did record it in the wrong server section, and recorded the P inside the square. But, R2 indicated that the libero was now tied to serving in the first serving spot (#12's spot).

Fortunately, it didn't matter -- that's where the team wanted the libero to serve.

Thanks for your help.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 06, 2009, 11:41pm
Resident VB Rules Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose, CA - the Capital of Silicon Valley
Posts: 481
Send a message via AIM to MCBear Send a message via MSN to MCBear Send a message via Yahoo to MCBear Send a message via Skype™ to MCBear
Thumbs down

Bob, how the devil are we to contact you as a moderator when:
Quote:
bob jenkins has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.
?????
We need a way to report spam and I don't find anything. HELP!

I tried to send the following to you:
Please block and remove spam posted by KnoniaSon on the volleyball and testing forums.
Jan
__________________
Jan G. Filip - San Jose, CA
EBVOA Rules Interpreter Emeritus
NCS Volleyball Officials Coordinating Committee Recorder
CIF State Volleyball State Championships Referee (2005), Scorekeeper (2006-2007) & Libero Tracker (2010)
PAVO State Referee (2014) / PAVO Certified Scorekeeper (2014) / PAVO Certified Line Judge (2012)
USAV Junior National Referee (resigned 2013) / USAV National Scorekeeper (2014)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 07, 2009, 06:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCBear View Post
Bob, how the devil are we to contact you as a moderator when:
?????
We need a way to report spam and I don't find anything. HELP!

I tried to send the following to you:
Please block and remove spam posted by KnoniaSon on the volleyball and testing forums.
Jan
You can use the "report post" icon to contact the moderators.

I have deleted the offending post on the boards for which I am a moderator -- i.e., General, Baseball and Basketball. I am not a moderator for the Volleyball (or other) forum.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scorekeeping/APOB Drew Basketball 8 Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:02pm
Scorekeeping issues dkmz17 Basketball 14 Fri Feb 09, 2007 08:44am
scorekeeping.... chris s Softball 0 Sun Jun 15, 2003 12:03am
Scorekeeping whiskers_ump Softball 4 Wed Jul 18, 2001 12:26am
Scorekeeping oppool Softball 15 Thu May 10, 2001 08:10pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1