Scorekeeping Question

[bob jenkins]

NCAA Rules.

Player # 4 enters for player # 11, but does not go through the usual substitution routine -- she just runs on and #11 runs off -- much like they would do if one of the players was the libero. R2 (nor R1) notices.

# 4 now serves (it is the "correct" spot -- # 11 was due to serve).

1) If the scorekeeper notices this before the becon for serve, should he say anything? If so, what?

2) If the scorekeeper doesn't notice until the ball is contacted, what should he do?

3) What is the notation on the scoresheet?

4) Is this a "substitution?" (one of the 12 allowed) If not, is the team allowed to now "officially" make the substitution? (Even if it's a loss of serve, the team wants #4 in the back row instead of #11)

Thanks

[MCBear]

Originally Posted by Bob Jenkins

NCAA Rules.

Player # 4 enters for player # 11, but does not go through the usual substitution routine -- she just runs on and #11 runs off -- much like they would do if one of the players was the libero. Neither R2 (nor R1) notices.

# 4 now serves (it is the "correct" spot -- # 11 was due to serve).

1) If the scorekeeper notices this before the beckon for serve, should he say anything? If so, what?

2) If the scorekeeper doesn't notice until the ball is contacted, what should he do?

3) What is the notation on the scoresheet?

4) Is this a "substitution?" (one of the 12 allowed) If not, is the team allowed to now "officially" make the substitution? (Even if it's a loss of serve, the team wants #4 in the back row instead of #11)

#1 & #2 - No. 4 is an illegal sub, so the scorekeeper should know the wrong server is going to serve, but must wait until the illegal service actually occurs. As soon as No. 4 contacts the ball for service, the scorekeeper sounds a horn or whistle (or verbally notifies the second referee).

#3 - A loss of rally (R) is recorded in a square in the scoring section on the line for the player who should have served (No. 11), and the next point is slashed in the opponent's running score and written in their scoring section with no other associated symbol. Since #4 is also a wrong server, on the next available line of the SANCTIONS box, record 4 (the incorrect server) followed by 11 (the player who should have served) in the WS column, enter either A or B in the A/B column, and record the score, noting the score of the team at fault first. #11 must return to the court, no substitution is charged since #4 was on the court illegally and the set continues.

#4 - An illegal sub NEVER counts as one the team's 12 subs. If it has been recorded, once the illegal sub is discovered, it is removed. Then, the coach may request a sub to make it legal - #4 in, #11 out following normal substitution procedure.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MCBear

#1 & #2 - No. 4 is an illegal sub, so the scorekeeper should know the wrong server is going to serve, but must wait until the illegal service actually occurs. As soon as No. 4 contacts the ball for service, the scorekeeper sounds a horn or whistle (or verbally notifies the second referee).

Thanks. That's what I did, including the rest of the scorekeeping. I blew the whistle when the serve was contaced. R2 "gently admonished" me that I was just to tell her during the rally --not to blow a whistle or sound a horn. Do you have a refernece for using the sounding device?

On the scorekeeping, I just wasn't sure if it was a Wrong Server or some other infraction.

What would I do is #4 entered for #11 improperly, but didn't serve (but I noticed and neither R did)?

[MCBear]

Bob, R2 is guilty of incorrect procedure...see page 134 of the current NCAA Rules starting with the 7th paragraph.

Originally Posted by Bob Jenkins

What would I do if #4 entered for #11 improperly, but didn't serve (but I noticed and neither R did)?

Same procedure: as soon as you notice the illegal sub, notify the R2. If it is while the player is subbing in, it is a Team Delay sanction (TDW if no previous delay during the set, TDP [Red Card] if they have already been assessed a TDW). Make sure you record the info in the Sanctions box.

If you catch it during play, notify the R2 at the conclusion of the rally because the team will be assessed a LOR for having an illegal player on the court. You will record the info in the Comments section. #4 must leave the court and #11 must reenter or #4 may legally sub in for #11.

[Bishopcolle]

Does all of this apply to FED?

[MCBear]

Bishop...NO...this thread is all about NCAA scoring, not NFHS. Ya gotta read, son, ya gotta read, I say (in my best Foghorn Leghorn voice).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MCBear

Bob, R2 is guilty of incorrect procedure...see page 134 of the current NCAA Rules starting with the 7th paragraph.

Thanks -- I couldn't find that during a quick perusal between matches the other night.

One more from yesterday:

Libero #2 enters for #11 n the back row and proceeds to serve. But, it's #12's turn to serve. (#12 is still in the lineup).

So, obviously a wrong server.

But, is the libero now tied to the serving position of #11 or #12?

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by MCBear

Bishop...NO...this thread is all about NCAA scoring, not NFHS. Ya gotta read, son, ya gotta read, I say (in my best Foghorn Leghorn voice).

I said, I said....Thank ya.....

[MCBear]

Bob, since the Libero did not serve for a legal server, unless she has previously served in the set, she is considered not to have served at all - so she is tied to neither - and is free to serve for any legal server.

1 - In your scenario, since the Libero is serving for a wrong server, you will NOT triangle the Serving Order Number on service contact.
2 - You will put a square with an R on the service line of the proper server.
3 - You will enter 12/11 in the WS column of the Sanctions box, designate Team A or B and enter the score.
4 - Finally, you will slash the next point in the opponent's running score column and enter the LOR point in the serving area for the next server.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MCBear

Bob, since the Libero did not serve for a legal server, unless she has previously served in the set, she is considered not to have served at all - so she is tied to neither - and is free to serve for any legal server.

oops -- then we got that one wrong. We did record it in the wrong server section, and recorded the P inside the square. But, R2 indicated that the libero was now tied to serving in the first serving spot (#12's spot).

Fortunately, it didn't matter -- that's where the team wanted the libero to serve.

Thanks for your help.

[MCBear]

Bob, how the devil are we to contact you as a moderator when:

bob jenkins has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

?????
We need a way to report spam and I don't find anything. HELP!

I tried to send the following to you:
Please block and remove spam posted by KnoniaSon on the volleyball and testing forums.
Jan

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MCBear

Bob, how the devil are we to contact you as a moderator when:
?????
We need a way to report spam and I don't find anything. HELP!

I tried to send the following to you:
Please block and remove spam posted by KnoniaSon on the volleyball and testing forums.
Jan

You can use the "report post" icon to contact the moderators.

I have deleted the offending post on the boards for which I am a moderator -- i.e., General, Baseball and Basketball. I am not a moderator for the Volleyball (or other) forum.