Qustions about college ball

[Scrapper1]

Ok, I am loathe to even ask these questions, but I have to get some answers. Quick background (which I've already shared with BITS):

Last Saturday, I was instructed to show up at a local community college and be prepared to stay for several hours. Fine, I figured it was some sort of tournament. Well, it was a junior college tournament. The details are unimportant, but I have since found out (yesterday) that I was asked to work this tournament because some in my association feel that I should be "fast-tracked" (for lack of a better word) to college games. (It sounds like a 2 or 3 year process.)

I am profoundly aware that I am not currently ready to work college games. But assuming that I can improve over the next 3 years to become ready, here are some questions.

1) Would I start out as a line judge? Or are college officials only used as R1 or R2?

2) What kind of travel is involved? For basketball, I sometimes travel 2 or 3 hours to get to the game site. Is this normal for volleyball as well?

3) What level of games would I get? Is there a significant difference in level of play between junior college and D3 schools?

4) How does "moving up" work? In basketball, to work D1, you have to go to camp and get hired by the league's assignor. Is this also true in volleyball? Or is there simply a regional assignor who can assign you to whatever level he/she thinks is appropriate?

5) What are the game fees for college ball? This is not the primary factor in my decision, but I make $125 for a JV/V doubleheader 20 minutes from my house. If I have to travel 2 hours for $150, it's not worth it to me.

6) What is the biggest adjustment that you make as an official between a high school match and a low-level college match (which is what I assume I'd start with)?

Thanks for any and all input.

[BlitzkriegBob]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I make $125 for a JV/V doubleheader

Wow. Sorry Scrapper, I can't answer any of your questions but my jaw dropped when I saw this. I make either $60 or $65 for a JV/V DH. There is one school I work that paid only $55 but they bumped the pay up this year to $60. For a middle school match I make $50-$60. That's why middle school matches are popular around here...for about $5-$10 less you can be home by 6:45 or 7:00 instead of 9:00 or 9:30.

[chartrusepengui]

Wow! $120 for double headers 20 minutes from home. SWEET! I get between $65 and $175 per JUCO match - depending on which school I am at.

Last night did a MS double header and walked away with $75 in an hour and a quarter. My regular partner was working as down official in JV Tri just 6 miles away and called me at 9:45 when he got done. They paid him $45 for the Tri and he was one P.O'd official.

In our area, they don't start you as line judges - you are paired with experienced official and are at the R2 and eventually assigned as R1 when it is felt you are ready. Camps are always encouraged.

I generally don't travel more than 90 minutes one way.

Biggest adjustments I have experienced is NCAA being more lenient on net fouls ..... You have to be on your toes as the caliber of play goes up a notch just as it does on every other level when you progressed. (faster, higher, harder, better blocking/passing, quick sets etc ) Go over all the rules differences - many times- until you are comfortable My first match - I called illegal hit when ball went off a knee - legal in college - egg on face.

Hey - have fun with it. Hardest thing I have to do now is to have a good college match - and then do something like a JV or low skill level varsity later in the week.

[mbyron]

We get $50 for JV/V HS double header.

[chartrusepengui]

for Jv/V double header our minimum has been $70 and our high $100 this year. We also get mileage in most places in addition to the match fees.

[Back In The Saddle]

Congrats, Scrappy

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

1) Would I start out as a line judge? Or are college officials only used as R1 or R2?

Depends. I normally am an official, but I will line judge from time to time. Ask the assignor.

2) What kind of travel is involved? For basketball, I sometimes travel 2 or 3 hours to get to the game site. Is this normal for volleyball as well?

Depends on how far you're willing to go. You don't have to go anywhere you don't want to go.

I live in Illinois, I got my PAVO National rating in Texas this year, but that's an anomaly. I have two matches in Tennessee, otherwise, all my matches are either in Illinois or bordering states. But that's because that's where I indicated I was willing to go, and the further ones are Division I, for which I'm willing to travel further.

3) What level of games would I get? Is there a significant difference in level of play between junior college and D3 schools?

Could be junior college, could be D-III, there's not a huge difference between the two. Frankly, NAIA is a much higher level than D-III IMO.

4) How does "moving up" work? In basketball, to work D1, you have to go to camp and get hired by the league's assignor. Is this also true in volleyball? Or is there simply a regional assignor who can assign you to whatever level he/she thinks is appropriate?

Can be a mix of both. Going to a camp can get you feedback that would be valuable, and can sometimes get you seen by the right people. But your assignor can/will also assign you to matches (or with partners) that are best for your skill level.

5) What are the game fees for college ball? This is not the primary factor in my decision, but I make $125 for a JV/V doubleheader 20 minutes from my house. If I have to travel 2 hours for $150, it's not worth it to me.

It all depends. If you're looking to get better, sometimes you have to see a better level of play (and travel to see it) for a lower rate.

If pay is your foremost concern, then you may want to stay where you are.

6) What is the biggest adjustment that you make as an official between a high school match and a low-level college match (which is what I assume I'd start with)?

Since you (IIRC) deal with college rules presently, the rules differences wouldn't be an issue. Understand that a college coach *is* that person's job, as opposed to a high school coach for which they probably have another full time job and this is a stipend. Give some leeway to the fact that the college coach may fight a little harder for a call, since his/her job just may be on the line. Don't let them get overboard, though.

R2ing is extremely important at the college level. Get better at it (and before someone takes that as a negative, we can ALL get better at R2ing). A bad R2 can kill a match; a good one can make things much better.

[Scrapper1]

Thank you for the insight, Felix. I truly appreciate it. Let me just follow up on a couple things you said.

Originally Posted by FMadera

I live in Illinois, I got my PAVO National rating in Texas this year, but that's an anomaly.

I don't even know what this means. Could you explain the rating process and how it relates to where you live?

Could be junior college, could be D-III, there's not a huge difference between the two. Frankly, NAIA is a much higher level than D-III IMO.

This is very interesting. In basketball, I don't deal with NAIA at all. I don't even know if there are any around me. I guess I'll find out, if things get that far.

If pay is your foremost concern, then you may want to stay where you are.

As I said, pay is not my foremost concern, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a concern at all. I love officiating basketball, and I generally don't mind the travel; but honestly, I don't LOVE officiating volleyball. So if my choice is "very good paycheck close to home and dinner with the family every night", or "pay is slightly better with a 3 hour round trip and home at midnight", I probably wouldn't be all that eager to move up.

Understand that a college coach *is* that person's job, as opposed to a high school coach

I'm also used to this from the basketball side. Dealing with the coaches is not what I do best, but I can do it.

R2ing is extremely important at the college level. Get better at it

Believe me, I am acutely aware that I need to get MUCH better at everything. I did not make this post to try to show off. But I did want some perspective on the next level to help me make a decision, should it get that far. And again, I sincerely thank you for all the help you've given me; not just in this thread, but over the last year.

[Andy]

Well...I'll throw in my .02 here....

I think the answers to most of your questions depend on the area where you live and work.

In my area, we have a 10 team JC league, a DII school, then the PAC10. In order to get into the JC league, you have to work and be seen at a lot of USAV stuff in the spring and summer. Some of that helps with the PAVO ratings process that Felix was talking about. I'm not involved at that level, so I will defer to him for more details. The assignor for the JC league is a PAC 10 official and has some say in helping people develop to that level. At that level, both of the referees and the line judges are assigned by the conference assignor.

The DII school in the area is in a conference with schools from California and Hawaii. Their matches are assigned by a local official who uses mostly local folks. She assigns both of the referees and the line judges.

The game does move much faster at the college level and some of the alignments that these teams can be really confusing.

Personally, I only do HS and some line judging for the local JCs. I am very involved in Softball umpiring in our area and choose to concentrate on that sport in the spring and summer.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I don't even know what this means. Could you explain the rating process and how it relates to where you live?

PAVO (Professional Association of Volleyball Officials) National rating just means I'm considered to be qualified to work any women's collegiate volleyball match in the country.

In theory, anyway.