Coach submits lineup backwards

[jkumpire]

I understand where you guys are coming from here, rules violations, they are in HS, etc. I sympathise with the coach "rule set aside" deal too, if you have a jerk, you probably can't do it.

But, I still think you need to think about doing this in this case, if you can get away with it. What is best for the players (on both sides) in this situation? Heck, go to the other coach if you need to and say, "Coach, we have a clerical error, let's let them fix it."

I wouldn't do it in all circumstances, but it is something to think about doing.

[MCBear]

jkumpire, there is the letter of the rule and the intent of the rule. What you are suggesting does not have any support anywhere in any rules set. If there is a screw-up, then it has to be lived with unless it happens prior to the stated deadlines in the rules codes. Teach everyone the proper way to do things and other officials will not have to deal with a problem that you pass on to them.

If I am the opposing coach or your assigner, I will be asking you to show me in the rules exactly where you found justification for your decision. Then I will probably not be very kind to you for creating your own rules.

[jkumpire]

So?

Look, in the games I do I am very much a rule book guy. But all I am saying is that this is something to consider.

If an assigner or evaluator asked me why I "ate the call" allowed the changes I would say:

1. The coach said it was her/his mistake, what can I do about it.
2. This is not a varsity game, it is a JV/Soph. game.
3. I thought that it would be in the best interest of the players to make the change.

Look, when I am down I make it a point to check for mistakes like this, I had a game where the coach was about to hand in her lineup, and she goes "O no, I put this in backwards". She fixed it, and all was well. I just hate to see a clerical error end up cosing someone a game.

I mean it is a sub varsity level game.

[MCBear]

jkumpire, what you are suggesting is not something to consider. You have no basis in rule to consider what you are suggesting. It doesn't matter if it is a Varsity, JV, Frosh/soph or Junior High match - if there is nothing in writing to back what you are suggesting, it is not proper procedure and should not be done.

Originally Posted by jkumpire

If an assigner or evaluator asked me why I "ate the call" allowed the changes I would say:

1. The coach said it was her/his mistake, what can I do about it.
2. This is not a varsity game, it is a JV/Soph. game.
3. I thought that it would be in the best interest of the players to make the change.

1 - You say that you understand, however, you are not allowed to take that into consideration. The lineup as it was submitted has to stand for the game.
2 - Where is there any differentiation designated in the rules for this situation? There isn't any, so follow the rule as printed.
3 - Where can you find specific justification for this in any rules book? Sorry, but it is in the best interest of the players to learn how to deal with errors that happen.

We do not judge intent only what is actually done. The lineup was submitted in the wrong order. TOO BAD! If the time limit for submission has passed, and there are six legal numbers, the lineup is legal and has to be lived with.

Your heart may be in the right place, but that and 50 cents will buy you a cup of coffee (but not at Starbucks!).

[FMadera]

Just a word of advice...

You potentially get into a lot of trouble if you actively make decisions based on the idea that one level isn't as important as another level.

To you, it may not be.

To the players and coaches, it's every bit as important to them.

[TimTaylor]

I'll second what McBear & Felix said, and add the following:

Most of the time experience is the best teacher. The reality of youth sports is that you can warn, cajole or attempt to accomodate until you're blue in the face, but until the players and coaches are forced to live with the consequences of their mistakes they really don't pay attention. Shielding them from those consequences, however well intended, is not doing them a favor, but in reality is doing them a disservice.

[MCBear]

Well said, Toolman!

[jkumpire]

Men,

I hope I don't sound snotty, but:

I've officiated 7 sports on the HS and college level for 25+ years. I understand where you are coming from, and 99% of the time I totally agree. I also know from coaching at HS and JH how important lower level games are to the participants, and coaches. Anytime I cross the lines, be it in JH Volleyball or college level Baseball, I take the game, the rules, and the sport very seriously, since for that short time, they are my kids trying to play a game they want to play.

But when someone unintentionally makes a gross error that ruins the chance for sub-varsity level players to get better and improve, I think it behooves us to try and find a solution for the benefit of the players playing, even if we bend the rulebook into a pretzel. And if I was the opposing coach, in the interest of my kids playing, I would be inclined to agree to a change.

A paperwork error is not a coaching mistake per se, but a human error. That is how I see it here. I won't continue the discussion any longer, I just hope you see where I was coming from with this.