younger ages: toss, drop, reserve?

[dvtaylor]

From the coach of my 5th/6th grade team (i.e., 12&Under):

-- begin quote --
We had an issue in a match. Player A tossed for an overhand
serve and intentionally let it drop. She then tossed and executed
a good serve. On her next attempt she tossed and let it drop,
then tossed and executed a good serve. The opponent called a
time out and the ref took the opportunity to address me. He said
there is only one drop per service rotation. I questioned the rule
and said that by USAV rules you got one drop per service attempt.
He then said that if she intentionally tossed and dropped a service
attempt that he would call a delay of game penalty. He really took
an attitude about it.
-- end quote --

Was the ref correct and NFHS differs from USAV?

Doug

[OmniSpiker]

I've had this problem come up every year in JOV, under USAV (U14), you get one re-serve attempt per rally. At the completion of that rally, you have another serve attempt and thus a new re-serve attempt is allowed. It's not one re-serve during your term of service rotation.

In USAV a toss is part of your serve attempt and allowing the ball to drop (not within court), is not a delay...

Even had my regional ref go and correct someone on that during a tournament.

NFHS does differ from USAV...the folks with NFHS knowledge will see to that.

[mbyron]

The NFHS rule is one re-serve per *player* per rotation. In other words, if a sub comes in to serve in the middle of a rotation, the sub will get a (perhaps additional, from the team's standpoint) re-serve in that rotation.

[OmniSpiker]

Whoah, I've never even thought of that scenario...^

But isn't the wording per term of service pretty much include the subsitution? although it does word "per player".

Yeah, we had problems with subsitution of a server (USAV U14)...one coach argued blue'd that another coach couldn't do that. I was a spectator and had to go tell all of them, that it was legal to do so. Ref was scratching there head during that time. Showed them on the scoresheet how to track that. Then ref said it was okay.

...mmm...was just checking out my USAV rulebook...doesn't say anything about toss landing in/off court. Just that it doesn't touch server. maybe it's changed over the years or I followed suit with what another ref told me...

But if a person gets all techinical, there really isn't a re-serve in USAV, but actually only a service tossing error. So you get a re-toss. LOL's. Just to be different from the phy ed in school's re-serve when the ball doesn't go into the court.

[mbyron]

Here's the relevant rule.

Originally Posted by Rule 8-1-4

A player’s term of service begins when the player assumes the right back position as the server and ends when a loss of rally is awarded or a substitution for the player is made prior to the end of the team’s term of service. Each player may have only one re-serve during a team’s term of service.

[OmniSpiker]

Wow that's something I've got to make a mental note of...under NFHS subbing for server.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by OmniSpiker

Wow that's something I've got to make a mental note of...under NFHS subbing for server.

It's not that surprising: in every sport, FED has extremely liberal substitution rules in order to foster participation. This is one of the standard justifications for FED having different rules at all.

[OmniSpiker]

It comes down to me, saying, telling, yelling to the rest of the other coaches, refs, and players...

Club is Not school vball!

LOL's So they should just quit trying to argue that they're right and I'm wrong...LOL's just like somebody had to tell me it's USAV not FIVB.

***

Just to make sure...

Does the upref still have to cancel (acknowledge) the bad toss and authorized the re-serve with *whistle* in NFHS also?

***

Is it wrong for me to *whistle* after a toss error, then *whistle* for the re-serve or Simply just *whistle* for the re-serve is all that's necessary for USAV? (hand gestures included)

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by OmniSpiker

Just to make sure...

Does the upref still have to cancel (acknowledge) the bad toss and authorized the re-serve with *whistle* in NFHS also?

***

Is it wrong for me to *whistle* after a toss error, then *whistle* for the re-serve or Simply just *whistle* for the re-serve is all that's necessary for USAV? (hand gestures included)

Whistle (and signal re-serve) to indicate that you are no longer doing a 5 second count.

Whistle again (and beckon) to re-start the count.

[OmniSpiker]

Thanks Felix,

People kept asking me why I was way too whistle happy...

I'll be sure to remember that I'm stopping my 5 second count...

I sort of lost my reasoning after seeing a certified ref not blow her whistle after the toss error. Then I did that too afterwards...

[jmaellis]

Originally Posted by dvtaylor

From the coach of my 5th/6th grade team (i.e., 12&Under):

-- begin quote --
We had an issue in a match. Player A tossed for an overhand
serve and intentionally let it drop. She then tossed and executed
a good serve. On her next attempt she tossed and let it drop,
then tossed and executed a good serve. The opponent called a
time out and the ref took the opportunity to address me. He said
there is only one drop per service rotation. I questioned the rule
and said that by USAV rules you got one drop per service attempt.
He then said that if she intentionally tossed and dropped a service
attempt that he would call a delay of game penalty. He really took
an attitude about it.
-- end quote --

Was the ref correct and NFHS differs from USAV?

Doug

It seems to me that NFHS rules do allow for a delay penalty to be assessed for excessive use of the reserve rule. 9-9-1 does not limit the assessment of unnecessary delay to only the listed offenses ("Unnecessary delay includes, but is not limited to when:"). I could see the continual use of a reserve as grounds for assessing unnecessary delay, it's akin to making excessive serving order requests (9-9-1-C); of course each situation needs to be assessed upon it's own merits.

But even so, there is a specific NFHS conduct rule that addresses this very situation. Rule 12-2-9-i), abusing the reserving rule, is an unsporting act.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by OmniSpiker

People kept asking me why I was way too whistle happy...

Volleyball in general is whistle-happy. After coming from basketball, I feel like I'm just blowing the freaking whistle all the time.

[MCBear]

Originally Posted by FMadera

NFHS allows one re-serve per player's term of service. As was stated already, a sub coming into the game would start a new player term of service. If the original player were to re-sub into the game, that would be a new term of service, and that player would be entitled to another re-serve. A player's second dropped serve would result in a loss of rally.

Felix, my friend, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but you are incorrect in what you posted (the part that I bolded). Per Rule 8-1-4: "...Each player may have only one re-serve during a team's term of service." Therefore, the first server may have one re-serve, a substitute who enters for the server during the same term of service may have one re-serve, but if the original player re-enters during the same term of service, she may not have an additional re-serve as she has already used it.

Hopefully that clears up any misconception.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by MCBear

Felix, my friend, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but you are incorrect in what you posted (the part that I bolded). Per Rule 8-1-4: "...Each player may have only one re-serve during a team's term of service." Therefore, the first server may have one re-serve, a substitute who enters for the server during the same term of service may have one re-serve, but if the original player re-enters during the same term of service, she may not have an additional re-serve as she has already used it.

Hopefully that clears up any misconception.

Hmm, that's what I get for listening to/ passing on information from our state's rules interpreters, I guess.