Substitution PRocess

[bob jenkins]

NFHS rules (but I'd be interested in others).

Two subs approach the sub zone. Sub1 enters the sub zone, meets the player to be replaced, and is released onto the court by R2. Sub2 now enters the sub zone, but the coach immediately calls Sub2 back to the bench.

Can the coach do so without penalty? Are the coach's options YUD or require the sub?

(Clearly if the coach calls Sub2 back before Sub2 enters, the zone, it's allowed.)

[Scrapper1]

When these situations are discussed in the locker room, my mentor (a D1 NCAA tournament official) asks, "Did it cause a delay?"

If yes, you address it. If no, we play volleyball.

Probably not the rulebook answer.

I think the rulebook answer is that once the team member enters the sub zone, there are only 2 options. Delay warning or complete the substitution.

In NCAA, you could probably get away with an Improper Request.

Common sense says, you blew the whistle and there was a sub. Move on.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

When these situations are discussed in the locker room, my mentor (a D1 NCAA tournament official) asks, "Did it cause a delay?"

If yes, you address it. If no, we play volleyball.

Probably not the rulebook answer.

I think the rulebook answer is that once the team member enters the sub zone, there are only 2 options. Delay warning or complete the substitution.

In NCAA, you could probably get away with an Improper Request.

Common sense says, you blew the whistle and there was a sub. Move on.

I agree with the common sense answer. I'd just like to know if I'm setting aside a rule when I implement it. I think I've seen a case play on this, but I couldn't find it last night.

[PaREF]

A substitution was requested and a subsitution was granted. If there is no other delay, there should be no need for a YUD.

There is only one request for substitution per team permitted during a dead ball period. Whether a team subs in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 players, there is only one request for substituion. As long as one legal substitution was made and there are no other delays, there is no need for a delay sanction.

[bob jenkins]

That's what I have , too -- but I'm having a hard time showing it in the rules / case book.

Other, non FB spots for discussing VB rules (and mechanics and game management and ...)?

[PaREF]

While this isn't 'exactly' the same situation, it should satisfy anyone's questioning of the procedure. From the 2020-2021 NFHS casebook;

10.2.7 Situation A: Two substitutes stand and proceed as substitutues with the first entering the substitution zone. The coach quickly tells the second substituting player not to substitute this time. Ruling: If this is done quickly as not to delay the set, no violation is called.

[bob jenkins]

There is this from RefMag (the NASO supplement in the middle):

PLAY: ...two players from team B stand and approach the substitution area. B1 enters the substitution zone and B2 stands outside the zone... The second referee...authorizes B1 to enter the game. B2 then enters the substitution zone and is authorized to enter. The coach indicates that he or she does not want to make the second substitution. RULING: In all codes, once a substitution is acknowledged, the substitute may not be withdrawn without repercussion. The team should be assessed a delay sanction (administrative delay).

So, if we accept the RefMag ruling (and I recognize they are not always correct):
1) If the second sub is withdrawn before entering the sub zone, legal.
3) If the second sub is withdrawn after being authorized to enter, YUD (or equivalent)

Left open is:
2) The sub is withdrawn after entering the sub zone but before R2 authorizes entry.