Weird play - curious about rule

[box_elder]

Had the following play happen today and I'm curious about the official rule, though it's one I probably won't see again.

Young girls fastpitch. They were playing *without* infield fly rule, which caused the weirdness.

Bases loaded and either 0 or 1 outs. Batter hits a short infield fly towards third. All runners start advancing. Third baseman couldn't get to the fly in time and it dropped.

Runner from third returns to third base after ball hit the ground. Third baseman fields the ball and tags runner from third while runner is standing on third. Third baseman then touches third base.

Should it be a double play at third, since runner is forced to advance on the hit (no infield fly rule in play)?

Can the runner remain on the base "safe" from tag until third baseman either
1) throws home for the force
2) steps on third to force out runner from second and removing the force for runner at third
3) runner from second arrives and two players attempt to occupy the same base

[RKBUmp]

With no IFF rule in effect, the runner on 3rd lost the right to the base on the fair batted ball. Even standing on it she no longer has the right to the base and can be tagged out. With the tag and then step on the base, it was a double play. If the fielder had stepped on the base first, the force would have been removed and the runner standing on 3rd would have been safe on the tag. If both players were standing on the base, the runner originally on 3rd lost the right to the base on the hit and could be tagged out, stepping on the base would do nothing as the advancing runner is already there and safe.

[box_elder]

Thank you for the quick and detailed response.

[SWFLguy]

Never heard of that. What is the rationale for not having it?

[RKBUmp]

I have run into it in many rec leagues in the 10 age group. For whatever reason they think it is too confusing for the 10 year olds so they dont have an IFF.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I have run into it in many rec leagues in the 10 age group. For whatever reason they think it is too confusing for the 10 year olds so they dont have an IFF.

Bah - how many adult players are confused about it?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by SWFLguy

Never heard of that. What is the rationale for not having it?

Because of the reduced chance of a fielder's catching a fly ball. Why give the defense a gift out?

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Because of the reduced chance of a fielder's catching a fly ball. Why give the defense a gift out?

In games that can go 20-19, you want whatever outs you can get.

Rita

[SWFLguy]

Honestly have never heard of any level of play that ignored the infield fly rule. I've been calling softball and baseball since 1957. Makes no sense to eliminate it. In many of my JV games, it can help move a very long half inning. Rita C is correct.

[john5396]

At any level, infield fly is not "giving the defense a free out". This play is the perfect example of why they need the IFF. The Infield fly rule exists to prevent the defense from getting the cheap double play. It protects the offense.

If your really concerned that the young kids don't understand, then add a local rule that makes the IFF a dead ball and protect the offense from the cheap DP.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by SWFLguy

Honestly have never heard of any level of play that ignored the infield fly rule. I've been calling softball and baseball since 1957. Makes no sense to eliminate it. In many of my JV games, it can help move a very long half inning. Rita C is correct.

The Travel League I do has the same rule. No IFF for 10U. I had a similar play to the OP earlier this year. The difference, the fielder touched the base then the runner. The defense wanted the DP, and it took a while to explain after the game why they only got one out. This game also had a look back rule violation called that took some explaining after the game as well.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SWFLguy

Never heard of that. What is the rationale for not having it?

The reason the rule exists is to prevent the defense from intentionally not catching the pop up and turning an easy double play...

At low-level 10U, or younger, there is not a chance the defense could decide not to catch the ball and then turn a double play... in fact, coaching them to fail to catch it on purpose is more likely to result in ZERO outs instead of 1 (or 2). So no need for the IFF at that level.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SWFLguy

Honestly have never heard of any level of play that ignored the infield fly rule. I've been calling softball and baseball since 1957. Makes no sense to eliminate it. In many of my JV games, it can help move a very long half inning. Rita C is correct.

I think anyone here would agree it's stupid to remove the rule at JV. We are talking MUCH lower level than that.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The reason the rule exists is to prevent the defense from intentionally not catching the pop up and turning an easy double play...

At low-level 10U, or younger, there is not a chance the defense could decide not to catch the ball and then turn a double play... in fact, coaching them to fail to catch it on purpose is more likely to result in ZERO outs instead of 1 (or 2). So no need for the IFF at that level.

Sure there is a need. The play in the OP is proof of that.

[MD Longhorn]

That doesn't make a lot of sense, to be honest. If they don't use the IFF, and everyone knows they don't use it, the runner staying on 3rd base after the ball wasn't caught is simply a dumb move on her part. She should run. If she had run (and again, going off the assumption that the level of play is such that IFF is not necessary ... again, low level 10U or any level 8U), then it would not be likely this low level defense could throw her out at home and still have time to throw out any other runner.

it was her staying on 3rd that made this DP possible ... just as if she'd stayed on third base on a ground ball to the third baseman.