Weird Play

[JamieSlick]

I was watching a University final game of the regular season with first place on the line when this happened. My buddy was doing the game and wanted some input on this situation. A1 has just picked up her dribble and a 5 count has started. After about three seconds, B1 reaches in to get the ball and gets her finger caught between the tape job of A1's index finger and thumb. As a result the ball goes loose. A1 and B1 can't get untangled and are both standing around helpless. Nothing happens for about 2-3 seconds, as I guess the players were shocked about what happened. Finally, B2 runs and picks up the ball, on her way to an apparent breakaway, when one of the officials blows the play dead. Is there a rule that covers this? Is it a foul on B2 for "reaching in" or a technical foul on A1 for a bad tape job? Should the officials let this go and play on or do we have the classic do over (which is what they did by the way). Your inputs would be appreciated

JamieSlick

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

First, it is not a foul when the defense reaches in to try to steal the ball. Reaching is not a foul.

When the ball became loose it was still in control of Team A. Hind sight is always 20/20 but I would have blown the ball dead immediately when I saw that the two players were tangled up. After getting the players untangled I would have given the ball to Team A for a throw-in because Team A was in control of the ball when I blew the ball dead.

[BktBallRef]

My initial thoughts were the same as Mark's. I just hope I would think of it that quickly while on the floor.

[Brian Watson]

I think there is a weak case for a foul, I suppose you could say she would have fouled her if she had not been caught in the spider web of tape, but I think that is really pushing it.

And no, you would not call a reaching foul, there is not such animal. Although, I will give the first coach who can find it in the rule book, $10000.00.

I would just kill it, and give the ball back to A.

[mcdanrd]

While there is no foul for reaching in, there was obviously enough contact to dislodge the ball. Is there no foul because the hand is part of the ball, or could you have an illegal use of hands (hack) foul for excessive contact that gave an advantage to B?

[Bart Tyson]

When the official saw the breakaway layup, hold whistle and stop play after basket. If the official could have blown the whistle before the steal of the loose ball, then we go to the AP arrow. While you have team control on loose ball there is no player control. Since the official blew the whistle while in control of the player of team B going for layup then the ball goes back to that team B.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
When the official saw the breakaway layup, hold whistle and stop play after basket. If the official could have blown the whistle before the steal of the loose ball, then we go to the AP arrow. While you have team control on loose ball there is no player control.

Read 6-3-3e and 7-4-4 and see if you don't change your mind on that statement.

[winston robinson]

Sounds as if good defense caused a loose ball with no team control. If in your judgement there was no foul commited and the players did not appear to injure each other, play-on. Fast break, score the basket, and then if they're still locked together, stop play.

[JamieSlick]

Thanks for the input. I guess the problem with this play is that it surprised the officials on the floor. The "fair" thing to do was to stop play ASAP and give the ball back to Team A. However, I was wondering if there was a rules which would overrule the fair ruling that was given in this circumstance. Ideally, the play would have been blown dead before the Team B player got the ball. Unfortunately, this was not the case!

JamieSlick

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by winston robinson
Sounds as if good defense caused a loose ball with no team control.

I'm afraid there was no loss of team control. Team A continued to be in control of the ball until B recovered it. Then, Team B gained control. While the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal.

[Bart Tyson]

OK BktBallRef, i looked up Rules 6-3-3e and 7-4-4. I don't understand what these rules have to do with this play. Please help me understand.

[Martin Morgan]

Bart,

If you still have team control at the time of the whistle, why are you going to the arrow?

Martin

[Bart Tyson]

loose ball, no player control, how can you get it back to the team who had team control? where does it say this in the rules? The way i read rule 6-3-3e and 7-4-4 is, example; if the ball goes OOB, the team that is awarded the throwin is the team control team.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
loose ball, no player control, how can you get it back to the team who had team control? where does it say this in the rules? The way i read rule 6-3-3e and 7-4-4 is, example; if the ball goes OOB, the team that is awarded the throwin is the team control team.

Sigh --

TEAM control is different from PLAYER control.

Player control exists when a player is holding or dribbling the ball.

Team control starts when player control starts, and continues until, umm, there's a violation, foul, shot or the other team gains player control (I hope that's at least close to correct -- I'm doing it from memory).

So, in the play we have, A1 has player control, thus A has team control. Now, A1 loses the ball -- there's no player control, but team A still has team control.

When (if) the (inadvertant) whistle blows, the ball goes back to the team with team control -- that's A.

[Bart Tyson]

It sounds reasonable. And i'm sure there is a rule or at least a case play showing this. If this was to happen, i would sure hope the team in control is behind by 30 points. If you happen to find the case play, please let me know. I wonder if NCAA sees this the same way.