Fair-Foul Question and other questions

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Need a definition, here you go:

Projected substitution/re-entry - A reported change to take effect at a future point in time (i.e., not immediately).

Unfortunately, even that doesn't nail it down. "take effect" means one thing to chap and Dakota, and something else to me and whoever else will only take the next batter (or current runners) changes. And both sides are reasonable interpretations.

I see Chap's and Dakota's argument on this. I don't agree with it, but I also don't insist the way I see it is the only possible way to see it (or vice versa of course).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Unfortunately, even that doesn't nail it down. "take effect" means one thing to chap and Dakota, and something else to me and whoever else will only take the next batter (or current runners) changes. And both sides are reasonable interpretations.

I see Chap's and Dakota's argument on this. I don't agree with it, but I also don't insist the way I see it is the only possible way to see it (or vice versa of course).

"take effect" can only mean one thing, whatever it is, is now, not later. IMO, arguing that point is going beyond the argument for argument's sake, and that is something with which I am familiar

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

"take effect" can only mean one thing, whatever it is, is now, not later. IMO, arguing that point is going beyond the argument for argument's sake, and that is something with which I am familiar

The substitution does take effect immediately when it is announced. The substitute player is now the player legally in the lineup at the time, thus the substitution has taken effect. If a player other than that player comes to bat, we have an issue.

One other thing to consider. Does it say anywhere in the rules, except in the portion of the rules pertaining to pitchers and catcher for the purposes of a courtesy runner, that a player must actually participate in the game after substituting into the game?

Let's look at one scenario.

R1 on first, two outs. 0-0 count on S4, who has been announced as the substitute for B4. R1 is called out for leaving early. Now S4's coach comes out and wants to put B4 back into the game. Has S4 ever entered the game? Did she actually participate? Even though S4 never actually participate in any play (the out, and no pitch mean she was never actually participating any an aspect of the game), she did use an entry into the game.

(I actually had something similar to this happen last season, and the coach tried arguing that she never entered the game).

[robbie]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

(I actually had something similar to this happen last season, and the coach tried arguing that she never entered the game).

Chapmaja:
Where do you ump? I really have to go watch some of these games.
I've been doing fast pitch for 15 years and you see more odd occurances every weekend that I have experienced in my career......

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The substitution does take effect immediately when it is announced. The substitute player is now the player legally in the lineup at the time, thus the substitution has taken effect...

Exactly.

I have no issue with umpires using the NCAA interpretation in non-NCAA games. It is not wrong. I just don't view the rule as requiring that, and it wastes time.

[MD Longhorn]

I think it's a little funny that Chap is arguing with Mike, while Mike is supporting Chap's side of the discussion...