We screwed this one up.....

[Andy]

Teebob and I worked a Jr College DH today. NCAA rules

R1 on second, R2 on first no outs.

I am PU. Teebob is BU.

Sinking line drive hit to F4, ball hits ground and short hops into F4's glove, I am emphatically pointing toward the ground to indicate I do not have a catch, but no verbal.

F4 throws to F3 at first to retire batter-runner, F3 throws to F6 at second and BU signals an out, thinking that we have a caught fly ball and an appeal of R1 leaving second early. Both teams start to leave the field. I immediately call TIME and we get together. I ask if he had a catch on the slinking line drive, he tells me No, I saw your signal and I don't have a catch either.

Any suggestions on how to fix this or what we could have done differently?

[teebob21]

I still can't believe I brain-farted like that on the throw to 2B. When we came together, I was sure we had 2 outs until you pointed out the force play went away after the out at 1B. Curious to see how the board thinks we should have fixed it (other than don't call an improper out on my part ).

[Texas Aggie]

Not an umpire, but if there was no tag, don't you just leave the runners on base?

[Insane Blue]

was their an appeal of the play from a coach???

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

Teebob and I worked a Jr College DH today. NCAA rules

R1 on second, R2 on first no outs.

I am PU. Teebob is BU.

Sinking line drive hit to F4, ball hits ground and short hops into F4's glove, I am emphatically pointing toward the ground to indicate I do not have a catch, but no verbal.

F4 throws to F3 at first to retire batter-runner, F3 throws to F6 at second and BU signals an out, thinking that we have a caught fly ball and an appeal of R1 leaving second early. Both teams start to leave the field. I immediately call TIME and we get together. I ask if he had a catch on the slinking line drive, he tells me No, I saw your signal and I don't have a catch either.

Any suggestions on how to fix this or what we could have done differently?

Keep the out @ 1B on the BR. R1 & R2 are now on 3B & 2B, respectively.

OTOH, I don't know if I would have called time so quickly as I always have a tendency to watch how teams react. I have had teams literally run off the field with less than 3 outs as a set play, though this obviously doesn't seem to be a situation where that would occur. In this case, IMO, you made the right move in recognizing something was wrong as long as the runners also abandoned their base as a reaction to the erroneous call.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

OTOH, I don't know if I would have called time so quickly as I always have a tendency to watch how teams react. I have had teams literally run off the field with less than 3 outs as a set play, though this obviously doesn't seem to be a situation where that would occur.

Or, just until the coach realizes the problem and yells at them.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

In this case, IMO, you made the right move in recognizing something was wrong as long as the runners also abandoned their base as a reaction to the erroneous call.

ITUJ, but have to agree.

[azbigdawg]

rookies....

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

rookies....

Maybe so, but we got the Option Play Protocol right later in the game when Andy had catcher's obstruction on a batted ball.

That said, when you come together to administer an option play just 1 short inning after getting together to un-F a CF...it doesn't look very good to the crowd. It was still the right way to handle the obstruction on F2.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

ITUJ, but have to agree.

ITUJ? Not in my library of internet acronyms. Can you spell that one out for me, Cecil?

[Tru_in_Blu]

in the umpire's judgment?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

in the umpire's judgment?

That makes perfect sense. Thanks.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

rookies....

This is helpful...

What would you have done. oh great one?

(great is referring to your size, not your level of expertise....)

[AtlUmpSteve]

Personally, I verbalize "NOOOO!!" in that case; definitely NOT "no catch", just "NO".

But the issue isn't if your partner knew you ruled "no catch"; he admitted he just blew the result of the following play. It MAY be questionable if the teams knew, not sure if there were tag attempts from your description.

But, other than a possible issue of how quickly you called time, in case there may have been another play that wouldn't be with jeopardy attached, you needed to review the obvious misapplication that needed to be changed. Some may believe you should wait for a coach to appeal the call; I believe that your action was appropriate under these circumstances, as the coaches look to us address the obvious situations.

IMO, by addressing it yourself, immediately, you created (or expanded) a "trust" factor with those two teams, that your games will be handled correctly. That has value, even well beyond the normal expectation that if they appeal/protest/complain that you will rule correctly.

I recently had a play in a D1 game, first of a 3 game series, where one of my (3 man) crew made an award on a ball out of play that I believed incorrect. As PU, I called the crew together without waiting for it to be challenged, we talked it out and got it right. After the game, I found out BOTH head coaches called the conference coordinator to THANK him and give praise for this crew working to "get it right" without the need for them to challenge us. The rest of weekend was calm and cordial, and a later assignment with that home school was more of that, the coaches trusting us to handle whatever. My belief is that we should do more of that when it is clearly a rule misapplication; I'm NOT suggesting we approach our partners about judgment.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by Andy

This is helpful...

What would you have done. oh great one?

(great is referring to your size, not your level of expertise....)

1.Kill Terry
2. Fix as described...I think you handled it correctly...

[Andy]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

1.Kill Terry
2. Fix as described...I think you handled it correctly...

Being as this was game 2 of our DH and happened in the first inning, Option #1 is out as I was not going to work the game solo.......

We did resume the game with one out and runners at second and third. We called both coaches out, explained that we screwed up and this is how we are going to fix it. There was a brief protest from the defense that the line drive was caught in flight and it should be a triple play, but we handled that.

At the post game, we discussed it further and also thought that a reasonable fix would have been to call the out on the BR and place runners at first and third.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

1.Kill Terry
2. Fix as described...I think you handled it correctly...

No need for Andy to kill me. I was about as mortified as possible when Andy pointed out the force was gone. Not often am I stuck speechless, but I had little to say for a few seconds when I figured out what had happened.

Originally Posted by Andy

Being as this was game 2 of our DH and happened in the first inning, Option #1 is out as I was not going to work the game solo.......

We did resume the game with one out and runners at second and third. We called both coaches out, explained that we screwed up and this is how we are going to fix it. There was a brief protest from the defense that the line drive was caught in flight and it should be a triple play, but we handled that.

At the post game, we discussed it further and also thought that a reasonable fix would have been to call the out on the BR and place runners at first and third.

I thought about this more on the drive home, and I think we got it right the way we did it. We didn't "gift" any bases or any outs to a team that did not earn them while the ball was in play. I feel much better about R1 at 3B and R2 at 2B with the BR called out that I do about putting R2 back on 1B where she started. R2 reached 2B safely while the play was live; I just straight-up made the wrong call and misapplied the rule. There was no tag attempt.

Our (my) mistake placed both teams in jeopardy, and that's when Andy killed it.

We also postgamed Steve's advice: be LOUD on the uncaught infield line drive so everyone in earshot of the park knows that the umpires did not rule the ball caught.