The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2014, 12:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,672
ASA 2015 Rule Changes

2015 Playing Rule Changes and Comments

Rule 1, Stealing A: Adds Junior Olympic Boys 18 and Under and Men’s 21 and Under
classification of play to those who can steal in Slow Pitch.
Comment: Allows Junior Olympic Boys 18U and Men 21U to steal in Slow Pitch.

Rule 2, Section 1: The pitching distance for Women’s Modified classification of play
shall be 43 feet.
Comment: Changes the pitching distance in Women’s Modified Pitch to 43 feet.

Rule 3, Section 3F [2]: EFFECTIVE 2016 The use of the yellow optic cover, red stitch
11-inch ball with a core of .520 or under and a compression of 300.0 lbs. for Women’s
Slow Pitch, Coed Slow Pitch (Women batters only), Women’s Seniors, Women’s
Masters and Boy’s and Girl’s Junior Olympic Slow Pitch.
Comment: Allows the use of the 52/300 11-inch ball in 2016 for all of the above
classifications of play.

Rule 4, Section 1D[2A] Exception: In all Junior Olympic Fast Pitch Pool Play Only;
When a team elects to bat more than nine batters the game will continue with the
skipped batter being recorded as an out whenever a player leaves the game for any
reason other than an ejection. Teams cannot play with less than 8 players.
Comment: Defines the shorthanded rule when batting more than 9 batters in all
Junior Olympic Fast Pitch pool play.

Rule 5, Section 5A [2] EXCEPTION: Removes Senior Slow Pitch classification of play
from those who have to run out home runs.
Comment: Allows for Senior’s to choose not to run the basses on a Home Run
or Four Base Award.

Rule 5, Section 9A [3]b: Senior Slow Pitch Run Ahead Rule will be – 20 after 4
innings and 15 after 5 innings.
Comment: Removes Run Ahead Rule after 3 innings and defines the new run
ahead rule for Senior’s Slow Pitch Classification of Play.

Rule 5, Section 10A Exception:

(Code310P) The Championship and “If” game in
Junior Olympic 10 and Under ASA/USA Championship will have a two hour time limit.
Comment: Allows for the Junior Olympic 10U ASA/USA only to have a 2 hour
time limit in the Championship and “IF” game.

Rule 7 Section 2E: (Fast Pitch) In Junior Olympic Pool Play only, teams have the
option of having all roster players present bat. The Shorthanded Rule that applies to
Fast Pitch will apply.

Rule 4, Section 1 [a-d] and 2 [a-g] Exception
Comment: Allows Junior Olympic Fast Pitch teams to bat everyone in pool play.

Rule 7 Section 3D: (Junior Olympic) After entering the batter’s box, the batter must
remain in the box with at least one foot between pitches and while taking signals and
practice swings.
Comment: Removes the requirement to keep one foot in the batter’s box for
Modified Pitch Classification of Play.
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2014, 02:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Woodstock, GA; Atlanta area
Posts: 2,822
Andy, was there any discussion about the courtesy runner rule application if a team batted the roster in pool play? Obviously, teams that want to use the rule will be thinking the last out being able to run; while the absence of a rule means they don't have anyone eligible to run.
__________________
Steve
ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2014, 03:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Andy, was there any discussion about the courtesy runner rule application if a team batted the roster in pool play? Obviously, teams that want to use the rule will be thinking the last out being able to run; while the absence of a rule means they don't have anyone eligible to run.
The courtesy runner was not brought up. The main discussion points centered around the shorthanded rule. The NUS indicated the if a team had 13 players and elected to bat all 13 and two became injured, the game would be a forfeit per the current shorthanded rule. The proposals were amended to adjust the shorthanded rule and passed.

My best guess is that the courtesy runner rule will remain unchanged. if a team wants to "bat the roster", they will not be able to use a courtesy runner.
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2014, 04:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,640
Suppose I have 15 players in my dugout. Are my only options:

- Bat 9.

- Bat 15.

What I'm getting at is the new rule seems to say you can bat "everybody". Can you leave a couple on the bench and bat, say, 12 or 13? Is batting "everybody" all or nothing?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 24, 2014, 05:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan View Post
Suppose I have 15 players in my dugout. Are my only options:

- Bat 9.

- Bat 15.

What I'm getting at is the new rule seems to say you can bat "everybody". Can you leave a couple on the bench and bat, say, 12 or 13? Is batting "everybody" all or nothing?
If the wording is what we have seen, good catch!
Presumably not the intent, but the rule as presented.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 25, 2014, 10:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan View Post
Suppose I have 15 players in my dugout. Are my only options:

- Bat 9.

- Bat 15.

What I'm getting at is the new rule seems to say you can bat "everybody". Can you leave a couple on the bench and bat, say, 12 or 13? Is batting "everybody" all or nothing?
The same questions was asked as the change was being debated...the intent is to allow the team to bat "up to" the entire roster.
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 25, 2014, 12:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The same questions was asked as the change was being debated...the intent is to allow the team to bat "up to" the entire roster.
Assumed, but will that be published.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 08:08am
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The same questions was asked as the change was being debated...the intent is to allow the team to bat "up to" the entire roster.
So in Bret's scenario, if he has 15 at the game and decides to bat 12, and he loses one due to injury, he's not allowed to enter one of his three remaining bench players to replace her? And then if he loses a second starter due to injury, he has to forfeit due to the shorthanded rule?
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 11:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
So in Bret's scenario, if he has 15 at the game and decides to bat 12, and he loses one due to injury, he's not allowed to enter one of his three remaining bench players to replace her? And then if he loses a second starter due to injury, he has to forfeit due to the shorthanded rule?
The intent of the change was to allow a team to bat "up to" the total number of players on their roster. The NUS immediately pointed out that the shorthanded rule states that if a team drops below one less than what they started the game with, the game is forfeited. The author of the rule change then amended the rule change proposal to indicate that the shorthanded rule would not come into effect unless a team dropped below 8 players.

If a team has 15 players, bats 12, then the other three players are legal substitutes. The shorthanded rule would not come into effect until that team could not provide 8 batters in the lineup.

I'm sure that there will be some additional clarifications issued regarding this.
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 12:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The intent of the change was to allow a team to bat "up to" the total number of players on their roster. The NUS immediately pointed out that the shorthanded rule states that if a team drops below one less than what they started the game with, the game is forfeited. The author of the rule change then amended the rule change proposal to indicate that the shorthanded rule would not come into effect unless a team dropped below 8 players.

If a team has 15 players, bats 12, then the other three players are legal substitutes. The shorthanded rule would not come into effect until that team could not provide 8 batters in the lineup.
Don't think that is correct.

The shorthanded rule should apply at all times. The team can NEVER drop below 8 players.

As noted in OP:

Rule 4, Section 1D[2A] Exception: In all Junior Olympic Fast Pitch Pool Play Only; When a team elects to bat more than nine batters the game will continue with the skipped batter being recorded as an out whenever a player leaves the game for any reason other than an ejection. Teams cannot play with less than 8 players.
Comment: Defines the shorthanded rule when batting more than 9 batters in all Junior Olympic Fast Pitch pool play.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 02:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Don't think that is correct.

The shorthanded rule should apply at all times. The team can NEVER drop below 8 players.

As noted in OP:

Rule 4, Section 1D[2A] Exception: In all Junior Olympic Fast Pitch Pool Play Only; When a team elects to bat more than nine batters the game will continue with the skipped batter being recorded as an out whenever a player leaves the game for any reason other than an ejection. Teams cannot play with less than 8 players.
Comment: Defines the shorthanded rule when batting more than 9 batters in all Junior Olympic Fast Pitch pool play.
I'm confused....what do you think is incorrect?

Here was the original scenario when the rule change was first proposed:

Team has 13 players and elects to bat them all.
Two players are injured and cannot continue in the game.
Per the shorthanded rule (4-2-D), this game would be a forfeit, even though the team still had 11 players in the batting lineup and could field a full team on defense. The shorthanded rule goes into effect when a team drops below one less than they started with in the batting lineup.

The rule change to allow a team to bat up to the number of players on the roster carries a provision that the shorthanded rule will not go into effect until a team cannot bat 8 players
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 05:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Is the confusion from terminology of the rule change explanation?

A team could "play shorthanded" if someone leaves regardless of how many in the lineup, so the shorthanded rule "applies".

The forfeit provision that has applied in the past would cause a forfeit if the team was "short" more than one player, based on the original requirement of max. 9 batters. That math meant playing with 8 batting was ok, less than 8 was a forfeit.

The new "rule" (or lack of it) to allow multiple extra batters then allows multiple short hands down to a minimum of 8.
That implies the possibility of multiple shorthanded outs in the lineup, perhaps an entire inning.

.................................................. .............
Comments:
It would be better to stick with limiting shorthanded to one short.

LRAMBF

Soccer minimum is 7.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 11:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I'm confused....what do you think is incorrect?

Here was the original scenario when the rule change was first proposed:

Team has 13 players and elects to bat them all.
Two players are injured and cannot continue in the game.
Per the shorthanded rule (4-2-D), this game would be a forfeit, even though the team still had 11 players in the batting lineup and could field a full team on defense. The shorthanded rule goes into effect when a team drops below one less than they started with in the batting lineup.

The rule change to allow a team to bat up to the number of players on the roster carries a provision that the shorthanded rule will not go into effect until a team cannot bat 8 players
Well, really it give the minimum number of players necessary to continue the game. The new rule clearly states the shorthanded rule is in effect when a player must leave the BO for any reason other than ejection.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 03, 2014, 07:51am
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
The new "rule" (or lack of it) to allow multiple extra batters then allows multiple short hands down to a minimum of 8.
That implies the possibility of multiple shorthanded outs in the lineup, perhaps an entire inning.
That's the other thing I thought about last night that made me wonder about the benefit of the rule. A team has 14 players, and wants to bat them all. They could lose five of them and still play shorthanded, but they would give up five outs each time through the line-up. That makes no sense to me.

Yes, I realize the likelihood of that happening is pretty slim. But why couldn't they just leave well enough alone?
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 03, 2014, 11:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
That's the other thing I thought about last night that made me wonder about the benefit of the rule. A team has 14 players, and wants to bat them all. They could lose five of them and still play shorthanded, but they would give up five outs each time through the line-up. That makes no sense to me.

Yes, I realize the likelihood of that happening is pretty slim. But why couldn't they just leave well enough alone?
Two words....college exposure!
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2014-2015 rules PABlue Wrestling 2 Mon Nov 17, 2014 03:08pm
2015 NFHS Rule Changes Andy Softball 14 Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:43am
2014-2015 NFHS Rule Book avail for Kindle... scrounge Football 0 Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:44am
Possible Fed Rule Changes for 2015. chapmaja Softball 15 Thu Apr 24, 2014 06:25pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:30am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1