what happened here?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

U3 and U1 (in covering for PU) did their job. I'll say again, this rotation getting off the rails was the fault of the PU.

I'll disagree. U1 should not be reading PU - he should be reading U3. If U1 reads the (appropriate) chase by U3, he reverts to a two umpire system - takes R1 to second and then picks up BR. If I were evaluating, my question to U1 is "who has the BR?" Sure it looks good by having a runner thrown out at the plate, but a cut and snap throw at the BR would have been u-g-l-y!

In further review, R1 may have been stealing or very fast, as she is past 2b when the ball hits the wall (hit and run maybe?). U1 may have been working down for the steal and that's why he didn't read.

That's not to say that PU could have used a better two umpire holding zone -deeper into foul territory and closer to the plate while (properly) reading the play (R1 was not slowing down).

With the NCAA's option to chase or not chase, all umpires have two reads: 1 - the ball (in who's area) and 2 - did my partner chase: "Read the ball, read your partner." It seems that U1 did not do this properly. And doesn't seem to be any communication.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

I'll disagree. U1 should not be reading PU - he should be reading U3. If U1 reads the (appropriate) chase by U3, he reverts to a two umpire system - takes R1 to second and then picks up BR. If I were evaluating, my question to U1 is "who has the BR?" Sure it looks good by having a runner thrown out at the plate, but a cut and snap throw at the BR would have been u-g-l-y!

In further review, R1 may have been stealing or very fast, as she is past 2b when the ball hits the wall (hit and run maybe?). U1 may have been working down for the steal and that's why he didn't read.

That's not to say that PU could have used a better two umpire holding zone -deeper into foul territory and closer to the plate while (properly) reading the play (R1 was not slowing down).

With the NCAA's option to chase or not chase, all umpires have two reads: 1 - the ball (in who's area) and 2 - did my partner chase: "Read the ball, read your partner." It seems that U1 did not do this properly. And doesn't seem to be any communication.

Good points on U1.

Question I have on the bolded part, is if the PU reads that R1 (who we'll assume was on the move) is not slowing down at 2nd, the PU's movement from behind the plate should be straight to a holding zone between HP and 3rd as opposed to how its diagramed in the Manual?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Don't know about NCAA, but if it was correct, it is a bad mechanic as it leaves 1 & 2 uncovered.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Good points on U1.

Question I have on the bolded part, is if the PU reads that R1 (who we'll assume was on the move) is not slowing down at 2nd, the PU's movement from behind the plate should be straight to a holding zone between HP and 3rd as opposed to how its diagramed in the Manual?

Who am I to disagree with the manual?

If I were the plate umpire on this play, after reading U3 chasing, I'm moving to the holding zone knowing that I have responsibility for R1 at 3rd or home. Once I read that R1 is rounding 3rd, I'm moving back to the plate (while not being in the runner's way), maybe even trying to get point of plate. The key is reading the runner and the throw.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Who am I to disagree with the manual?

If I were the plate umpire on this play, after reading U3 chasing, I'm moving to the holding zone knowing that I have responsibility for R1 at 3rd or home. Once I read that R1 is rounding 3rd, I'm moving back to the plate (while not being in the runner's way), maybe even trying to get point of plate. The key is reading the runner and the throw.

And when you look to your right and see U1 standing next to you?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And when you look to your right and see U1 standing next to you?

We will have a nice little talk, maybe as soon as the next inning.

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Question I have on the bolded part, is if the PU reads that R1 (who we'll assume was on the move) is not slowing down at 2nd, the PU's movement from behind the plate should be straight to a holding zone between HP and 3rd as opposed to how its diagramed in the Manual?

I agree - there is no way PU can get to all three spots in the diagram in sequence. If you read the hit to be for extra bases (the diagram on page 102), you go to the holding zone down the third base line and skip the circle. The diagram really should be changed. (See page 101 for the singles case.)

Another thought. The fact that PU was making no effort to work back toward the plate suggests to me that U1 had communicated that he had the plate covered. BWDIK.