what happened here?

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What do you think is wrong with that rotation? It's textbook.

Actually from this year's CCA Manual (pages 102-103), the rotation was botched. When U3 chases, P has the runner at third and home, and U1 has first and second. Maybe they deviated and communicated.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Jake26

Actually from this year's CCA Manual (pages 102-103), the rotation was botched. When U3 chases, P has the runner at third and home, and U1 has first and second. Maybe they deviated and communicated.

Nah.....I don't think there was deviation and communication here.
Unfortunately it was a botched rotation. It was a botched rotation in 2012 (date on the video) too as the Manual had coverage on that play then, the same as it is now.

PU got himself behind the 8 ball from the start of the play by not first moving to the holding area in front of the circle. That movement would have kept him out of the R1's way when she rounded third.

I agree with SethPDX's assessment as to why U1 rotated home. Good job on his part in covering the hole in the rotation.

We've all been part of, or responsible for, a botched 3 man rotation at one time or another. We kick ourselves (both individually or a crew) after the game and try to learn from it. I'm sure it was no different for this crew.

As a side topic....
Realizing that U1 had his hands full getting his tail down to home to make the call......does anyone have OBS on F2 at 0:39?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Jake26

Actually from this year's CCA Manual (pages 102-103), the rotation was botched. When U3 chases, P has the runner at third and home, and U1 has first and second. Maybe they deviated and communicated.

Honestly ... didn't see U3 chase on first watch. And he did that kind of halfway, which likely caused PU's confusion and U1's rotation. If you're going out, GO OUT! Looks like he sort of rotated, sort of chased, and got caught in between.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Honestly ... didn't see U3 chase on first watch. And he did that kind of halfway, which likely caused PU's confusion and U1's rotation. If you're going out, GO OUT! Looks like he sort of rotated, sort of chased, and got caught in between.

He did go out. He Paused, Read the play, and Reacted by chasing.
At 0:20 batter has made contact with the pitch.
At 0:22 U3 has pivoted w/back to infield and chasing into OF toward centerfield, then peels of to his right when he sees there's no catch.

U3 and U1 (in covering for PU) did their job. I'll say again, this rotation getting off the rails was the fault of the PU.
PU didn't read U3's chase and moved straight down the 3rd base line rather than initially moving to the holding area in front of the circle; and judging by what we see in the video, my guess is that he failed to communicate to U1 that the crew was now in two-man coverage.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

U3 and U1 (in covering for PU) did their job. I'll say again, this rotation getting off the rails was the fault of the PU.

I'll disagree. U1 should not be reading PU - he should be reading U3. If U1 reads the (appropriate) chase by U3, he reverts to a two umpire system - takes R1 to second and then picks up BR. If I were evaluating, my question to U1 is "who has the BR?" Sure it looks good by having a runner thrown out at the plate, but a cut and snap throw at the BR would have been u-g-l-y!

In further review, R1 may have been stealing or very fast, as she is past 2b when the ball hits the wall (hit and run maybe?). U1 may have been working down for the steal and that's why he didn't read.

That's not to say that PU could have used a better two umpire holding zone -deeper into foul territory and closer to the plate while (properly) reading the play (R1 was not slowing down).

With the NCAA's option to chase or not chase, all umpires have two reads: 1 - the ball (in who's area) and 2 - did my partner chase: "Read the ball, read your partner." It seems that U1 did not do this properly. And doesn't seem to be any communication.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

I'll disagree. U1 should not be reading PU - he should be reading U3. If U1 reads the (appropriate) chase by U3, he reverts to a two umpire system - takes R1 to second and then picks up BR. If I were evaluating, my question to U1 is "who has the BR?" Sure it looks good by having a runner thrown out at the plate, but a cut and snap throw at the BR would have been u-g-l-y!

In further review, R1 may have been stealing or very fast, as she is past 2b when the ball hits the wall (hit and run maybe?). U1 may have been working down for the steal and that's why he didn't read.

That's not to say that PU could have used a better two umpire holding zone -deeper into foul territory and closer to the plate while (properly) reading the play (R1 was not slowing down).

With the NCAA's option to chase or not chase, all umpires have two reads: 1 - the ball (in who's area) and 2 - did my partner chase: "Read the ball, read your partner." It seems that U1 did not do this properly. And doesn't seem to be any communication.

Good points on U1.

Question I have on the bolded part, is if the PU reads that R1 (who we'll assume was on the move) is not slowing down at 2nd, the PU's movement from behind the plate should be straight to a holding zone between HP and 3rd as opposed to how its diagramed in the Manual?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Don't know about NCAA, but if it was correct, it is a bad mechanic as it leaves 1 & 2 uncovered.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Good points on U1.

Question I have on the bolded part, is if the PU reads that R1 (who we'll assume was on the move) is not slowing down at 2nd, the PU's movement from behind the plate should be straight to a holding zone between HP and 3rd as opposed to how its diagramed in the Manual?

Who am I to disagree with the manual?

If I were the plate umpire on this play, after reading U3 chasing, I'm moving to the holding zone knowing that I have responsibility for R1 at 3rd or home. Once I read that R1 is rounding 3rd, I'm moving back to the plate (while not being in the runner's way), maybe even trying to get point of plate. The key is reading the runner and the throw.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Who am I to disagree with the manual?

If I were the plate umpire on this play, after reading U3 chasing, I'm moving to the holding zone knowing that I have responsibility for R1 at 3rd or home. Once I read that R1 is rounding 3rd, I'm moving back to the plate (while not being in the runner's way), maybe even trying to get point of plate. The key is reading the runner and the throw.

And when you look to your right and see U1 standing next to you?

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Question I have on the bolded part, is if the PU reads that R1 (who we'll assume was on the move) is not slowing down at 2nd, the PU's movement from behind the plate should be straight to a holding zone between HP and 3rd as opposed to how its diagramed in the Manual?

I agree - there is no way PU can get to all three spots in the diagram in sequence. If you read the hit to be for extra bases (the diagram on page 102), you go to the holding zone down the third base line and skip the circle. The diagram really should be changed. (See page 101 for the singles case.)

Another thought. The fact that PU was making no effort to work back toward the plate suggests to me that U1 had communicated that he had the plate covered. BWDIK.

[MD Longhorn]

Maybe. If he's going out, he takes an odd angle for it, and not many steps. I see him at 22 seconds, but he's not running anywhere that helps him with either distance or angle - and still at 22 the ball has already hit the wall. Seems kind of halfway to me, still, even after your explanation.

I agree that PU doesn't do himself any favors here, but perhaps he didn't read this as going out for the same reason I didn't. that ball gets to the wall AWFULLY quickly, and never looks like a trouble ball to me - so I have to think PU was not expecting U3 to go out.