Ball hits bat or bat hits ball

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

The only person that saw the bat out of the hands was the PU. I agree with you, it is not an every game play, we have the ones that are clear to everyone on the ground. This one bothers me because it is a little different did the ball hit the bat? Or did the bat hit the ball ?

If the bat is moving, the bat hit the ball (even if the ball is also moving). Only if the bat is stationary on the ground can a ball hit the bat.

[jmkupka]

MD,

...or if the bat is rolling away, and the ball is rolling faster & catches up with it. At least that's how I read the consensus here on a previous thread.

[RKBUmp]

NCAA game on TV last year or year before. I believe it was a Washington game. Bat in front of ball both rolling toward 1st base. Ball caught up to and hit bat. Ruling on field was batter out. Do not remember where I saw it now but play was submitted to Dee and her response was the ball hit the bat and no penalty.

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I don't see how you would support anything other than an out here. The Exceptions in 7-6-M are clear that the bat must still be in the batter's hands if she's still in the box, or that the ball rolls against a bat. A loose bat dropped onto a fair ball is a dead ball out, regardless of the batter's location.

You guys cut the girl some slack if you clearly saw the bat out of her hands when it contacted the ball. While I agree with you that it's not something you see every day and that it happened so close that only one person could see it, it should have been an out. Sometimes the game is a matter of millimeters.

Not a great way to start off in an elimination game at a National Tournament getting an out here. Now if I see this in my next 2000 games I will know what to do. Realistic Officiating (No Call) play ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

Not a great way to start off in an elimination game at a National Tournament getting an out here. Now if I see this in my next 2000 games I will know what to do. Realistic Officiating (No Call) play ball.

So you just outright refuse to do the job for which you are being paid because you are afraid to call an out at the beginning of an elimination game?

Interesting

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

Not a great way to start off in an elimination game at a National Tournament getting an out here. Now if I see this in my next 2000 games I will know what to do. Realistic Officiating (No Call) play ball.

Hey, sh!t happens all the time where a batter, batter-runner, or runner does something totally unintentional that we feel compelled we shouldn't add insult to injury. But that's just part of the game. By not calling it, that's not realistic officiating; rather, it's irresponsible officiating.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

I thought this play was different and would have better input. It was so close and only one person in the world saw it, we called Dead ball Foul. It was the second batter of an elimination game at a National Tournament. Any thoughts are welcome.

Originally Posted by xtremeump

Not a great way to start off in an elimination game at a National Tournament getting an out here. Now if I see this in my next 2000 games I will know what to do. Realistic Officiating (No Call) play ball.

I think it's pretty clear here that you aren't looking for input, not wanting to know what the proper call is/was. You are simply searching for someone to agree with you.

Sorry, there is no rule support in any code, you were wrong.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

Batter bunts ball straight down, ball comes straight up. Batted drops the bat and the ball and bat meet in the air in fair territory ? The BR is in the batters box. What is the call (all codes) ?

OUT.

This is one of those situations that the batter really doesn't do anything to "deserve" to be called out, but the batter is a victim of "bad luck". It's no different than a batter hitting an absolute screamer right back at the pitcher and the pitcher simply puts the glove up to protect themselves and the ball sticks in the glove for a catch. The batter in that case did not do anything wrong, they were a victim of bad luck (from their POV). Sometimes luck, good or bad, plays a part in the game of softball.

Also sports have calls that have to be made not based on the intent of a player, but the luck of play. A bounce might go one way for one team and another way for another team. Them's the brakes.

[SE Minnestoa Re]

Was working a Division 3 college game this spring. I was on the bases. Runners at first and second. Batter bunts, throws the bat down, which hits the ball. Plate umpire calls dead ball.

Then I see the WTF look in his eyes. He has no idea what to do. I stroll in and ask him what he has. He says dead ball. I say I know that but was the ball fair or foul when the bat hit it. He says fair. I say we have an out and the runners need to return to their original bases.

He agrees and makes the call. Head coach wants to know who made the call as she comes right at me. I said he did when he called dead ball. I said I came in to make sure we got the right call and that the runners were put in the correct position.

She was good with that and the rest of the doubleheader was great.

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I think it's pretty clear here that you aren't looking for input, not wanting to know what the proper call is/was. You are simply searching for someone to agree with you.

Sorry, there is no rule support in any code, you were wrong.

I was the BU in (C) when this happened. The (PU) asked me what I saw ? It was clear to me that the bat was in her hands. That is when the (PU) made the call, I did not know what the (PU) had seen ? In my humble opinion I don't care if anyone agrees with me. I was looking for an educated, experienced, helpful answer. Poop happens I get that, I was looking for something for someone that had this play before, you guys are like a gang waiting for blood. I now know better than to come here.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

I was the BU in (C) when this happened. The (PU) asked me what I saw ? It was clear to me that the bat was in her hands. That is when the (PU) made the call, I did not know what the (PU) had seen ? In my humble opinion I don't care if anyone agrees with me. I was looking for an educated, experienced, helpful answer. Poop happens I get that, I was looking for something for someone that had this play before, you guys are like a gang waiting for blood. I now know better than to come here.

Whoa, what do mean? I thought you got answers from folks who are educated and experienced.

In your OP, you said:

Batter bunts ball straight down, ball comes straight up. Batted drops the bat and the ball and bat meet in the air in fair territory ?

So what did you see? Did you see the batter dropping the bat and subsequently the bat and ball met in mid-air? Or you saw the bat in her hands? If it's the latter, then it wouldn't be an out. But apparently the PU saw otherwise, and if he did, then he screwed up by ruling a foul ball. There is no justification for making any other call, IF that's what the PU saw!

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Manny A

(Snip) Sometimes the game is a matter of millimeters.

Inches, Manny, inches.
This is an American game...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

I was the BU in (C) when this happened. The (PU) asked me what I saw ? It was clear to me that the bat was in her hands. That is when the (PU) made the call, I did not know what the (PU) had seen ? In my humble opinion I don't care if anyone agrees with me. I was looking for an educated, experienced, helpful answer. Poop happens I get that, I was looking for something for someone that had this play before, you guys are like a gang waiting for blood. I now know better than to come here.

Generally, if you change the play after the original post, the answers you got to the original post may not apply to the play you changed it to. If you're looking for helpful answers, ask questions that we can help you with - don't ask one question looking for the answer to some other question.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Whoa, what do mean? I thought you got answers from folks who are educated and experienced.

In your OP, you said:



So what did you see? Did you see the batter dropping the bat and subsequently the bat and ball met in mid-air? Or you saw the bat in her hands? If it's the latter, then it wouldn't be an out. But apparently the PU saw otherwise, and if he did, then he screwed up by ruling a foul ball. There is no justification for making any other call, IF that's what the PU saw!

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.....

[Altor]

So what's the problem? The PU thought the bat was out of her hands, but asked you for your opinion. You said it was still in her hands. He then called a foul ball.

If the PU was sure the bat was out of her hands, he should not have asked you and just called the out.