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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 21, 2007, 04:32pm
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Bat Hits Ball in Box

Batter bunts, drops bat, and the bat strikes the ball in fair territory in the box.

Is there an interp or rule somewhere I cannot find that says that since the ball and bat are both still in the box it is a foul ball instead of an out?

All I could find was the rule involving the batter still holding the bat while in the box, not one in which the bat has already been released.

Thanks All
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Old Mon May 21, 2007, 08:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo_Blue
Is there an interp or rule somewhere I cannot find that says that since the ball and bat are both still in the box it is a foul ball instead of an out?
I don't think so.
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Old Tue May 22, 2007, 01:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo_Blue
Batter bunts, drops bat, and the bat strikes the ball in fair territory in the box.

Is there an interp or rule somewhere I cannot find that says that since the ball and bat are both still in the box it is a foul ball instead of an out?

All I could find was the rule involving the batter still holding the bat while in the box, not one in which the bat has already been released.

Thanks All
Common sense rule. Since there is such a small fair territory space in the boxes, I would call it foul.

Bob
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Old Tue May 22, 2007, 02:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo_Blue
Batter bunts, drops bat, and the bat strikes the ball in fair territory in the box.

Is there an interp or rule somewhere I cannot find that says that since the ball and bat are both still in the box it is a foul ball instead of an out?

All I could find was the rule involving the batter still holding the bat while in the box, not one in which the bat has already been released.

Thanks All
Armadillo Blue, I have pasted 6.05(h) below. This should answer your question.

6.05(h) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops his bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play;
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Old Tue May 22, 2007, 03:11pm
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In FED (and OBR concurs, if the BRD is deemed credible), a batted ball accidentally striking a held bat in the batters box (no distinction made b/w fair and foul territory)is a foul ball.

You are right, I dont see a difference drawn b/w a held bat and a dropped bat in the batters box. But I see no compelling reason to treat the two differently in the batters box only.

I would submit that the prudent PU would not be able to discern with 100% accuracy if the ball/bat contact was made exclusively in that small fair-territory area of the box, and thus would rule all such instances a foul ball.
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Old Tue May 22, 2007, 04:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shickenbottom
Armadillo Blue, I have pasted 6.05(h) below. This should answer your question.

6.05(h) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops his bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play;
This rule is exactly what I said I found. By this rule the batter should be declared out. He was no longer holding the bat and the bat hit the ball in fair territory, not the other way around.

So I guess my question is, would you call it an out or would you go with the foul ball which is what I think is the "expected call?"
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Old Wed May 23, 2007, 08:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo_Blue
This rule is exactly what I said I found. By this rule the batter should be declared out. He was no longer holding the bat and the bat hit the ball in fair territory, not the other way around.

So I guess my question is, would you call it an out or would you go with the foul ball which is what I think is the "expected call?"


Armadillo, you've changed the sitch and your missing the point. In the original OP, the batter bunted and dropped the bat, then the ball hit the bat. When the bat hits the ball a 2nd time in fair territory (batter throws bat at ball - please note Intentional act), the batter is out and no runners can advance. When the ball hits the bat in fair territory and the bat is stationary (batter dropped the bat and ran), it's a fair ball and the batter is safe or out depending upon the outcome of the play.

When ever the bat and ball meet a second time, you the umpire must decide whether the contact was intentional or un-intentional. Whenever it is intentional, the batter is out, whenever it is un-intentional it's nothing and you have to decide whether the ball is fair or foul.

As others have said, since the ball rolled back against the bat in the batters box it is not an automatic out. You've got to decide whether the ball is fair or foul, then was the 2nd hit intentional or un-intentional. Since I'm assuming the bat was stationary (and the batter just dropped the bat and ran), it is not a violation of 6.05h. You've got to decide then fair or foul, and there is not much room in the box that is in fair territory.

Use your best judgement, however, absent an intentional act by the batter, I wouldn't automatically rule the batter out. The game is played by the players, you are there to officiate, don't over officiate and show that you know the small intricate details of every rule.

Just my humble opinion.

Last edited by shickenbottom; Wed May 23, 2007 at 08:23am.
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Old Wed May 23, 2007, 08:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shickenbottom
Armadillo, you've changed the sitch and your missing the point. In the original OP, the batter bunted and dropped the bat, then the ball hit the bat. When the bat hits the ball a 2nd time in fair territory (batter throws bat at ball - please note Intentional act), the batter is out and no runners can advance. When the ball hits the bat in fair territory and the bat is stationary (batter dropped the bat and ran), it's a fair ball and the batter is safe or out depending upon the outcome of the play.

When ever the bat and ball meet a second time, you the umpire must decide whether the contact was intentional or un-intentional. Whenever it is intentional, the batter is out, whenever it is un-intentional it's nothing and you have to decide whether the ball is fair or foul.

As others have said, since the ball rolled back against the bat in the batters box it is not an automatic out. You've got to decide whether the ball is fair or foul, then was the 2nd hit intentional or un-intentional. Since I'm assuming the bat was stationary (and the batter just dropped the bat and ran), it is not a violation of 6.05h. You've got to decide then fair or foul, and there is not much room in the box that is in fair territory.

Use your best judgement, however, absent an intentional act by the batter, I wouldn't automatically rule the batter out. The game is played by the players, you are there to officiate, don't over officiate and show that you know the small intricate details of every rule.

Just my humble opinion.
Reread the OP - batter bunts, drops bat, bat strikes ball - you wrote ball strikes bat. The former, batter is out. The latter, use judgment as to whether bat caused interference, similar to the 6.05h reference. The only other thing to know is fair or foul.

Batter bunts, drops bat, and the bat strikes the ball in fair territory in the box
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Old Wed May 23, 2007, 09:05am
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Oops, thanks Big Guy for the correction. I obviously in my haste mis-read, I like the taste of crow - deep fried is best.
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