Taking signs off the plate

[HugoTafurst]

From Manny's post:

INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS:
=> The pitcher can take signs from the manager or coach as long as she is standing on the pitcher’s plate. If not done, after warning, she can be removed from the game.

As much as I don't want to get into this, and as much as it goes contrary to everything I am used to, it looks like for Little League, INC - it not allowed for F1 to take a sign when not on the plate.
Repeating the instructor comment:
can take signs from the manager or coach as long as she is standing on the pitcher’s plate.
That sure reads to me that if she is not on the plate, she can not take signs....

Please don't get the impression that I endorse this comment.... just reacting to what I see.

[MD Longhorn]

I do LL EXTREMELY part time, but it was explained to me that was this was written to allow the pitcher to be on the plate, but head and shoulders turned sideways to take the signal - and that taking of the signal still counted as the pause required to not be a quick pitch.

If they took the manager's signals from OFF the plate, they DID still have to pause facing the catcher before pitching.

Without this, a pitcher who turned toward her manager to take the signal would then also have to appear to take one from he catcher, which is silly.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I do LL EXTREMELY part time, but it was explained to me that was this was written to allow the pitcher to be on the plate, but head and shoulders turned sideways to take the signal - and that taking of the signal still counted as the pause required to not be a quick pitch.

If they took the manager's signals from OFF the plate, they DID still have to pause facing the catcher before pitching.

Without this, a pitcher who turned toward her manager to take the signal would then also have to appear to take one from he catcher, which is silly.

Well, I have attended a number of LL schools and clinics through the years. And the instruction we received was that pitchers must be on the plate to receive signals from catchers, coaches, whomever. When they do so while off the plate, we are to instruct them to get on the plate.

Why LL is different, I have no idea. And whether or not this gets enforced at the various levels of regular season and tournament play is really up to the umpires working those games, and the UICs and tournament directors overseeing them. But it was made clear to us during formal instruction what LL HQ wanted.

[IRISHMAFIA]

This is ridiculous.

How in the world can an umpire tell if a pitcher is taking a signal? Neither you, me, nor anyone else save maybe the Amazing Kreskin has the slightest idea what the hell is going on with the pitcher, on or off the PP.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

the Amazing Kreskin .....

Did you really just go there????

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This is ridiculous.

How in the world can an umpire tell if a pitcher is taking a signal? Neither you, me, nor anyone else save maybe the Amazing Kreskin has the slightest idea what the hell is going on with the pitcher, on or off the PP.

When they make it obvious, it's easy. I don't worry about the discreet.

But really, how often do pitchers make it discreet? What are they trying to hide when they do? It's not as if they're trying to circumvent a rule that has huge ramifications if they get caught, like bat shaving or ball altering. It's a pitching sign for crying out loud. If they want to hide the fact that they are getting it from the bench, so what?

I was merely pointing out that, apparently unlike all other sanctioning organizations, LL requires the pitcher to be on the plate to take her signs. No big deal.

[RulesGeek]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This is ridiculous.

How in the world can an umpire tell if a pitcher is taking a signal? Neither you, me, nor anyone else save maybe the Amazing Kreskin has the slightest idea what the hell is going on with the pitcher, on or off the PP.

I've always thought this rule was silly... if TPTB want the pitcher to pause, tell him to pause. That is a fairness & safety rule to prevent quick pitches. That makes sense. It makes no sense to monitor team communications.

I'm a little too young to remember Hoyt Wilhelm but if I understand correctly, the pitch was ALWAYS going to be a knuckleball. Did he even use signs?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

LL requires the pitcher to be on the plate to take her signs. No big deal.

Hence my post. It is ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as it even being mentioned by ANY organization's rules.

Just mandate a pause (preferably 2 seconds) with the hands apart while on the PP. I don't give damn if she wants to read the message on the Goodyear blimp.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Hence my post. It is ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as it even being mentioned by ANY organization's rules.

Just mandate a pause (preferably 2 seconds) with the hands apart while on the PP. I don't give damn if she wants to read the message on the Goodyear blimp.

It's simple enough; LL doesn't write softball rules, or even consider the intent behind softball rules. They write baseball rules, and half-a$$ adapt them for softball; and we know baseball requires signals from the rubber (yeah, baseball has a rubber, not a pitcher's plate).

As to softball, we know why ASA doesn't simplify the rule; too many old-time traditionalists that truly believe verbiage in the rulebook came down from Mt. Sinai with those stone tablets. And if another association changes their rule first, well, that's even LESS likely to get ASA to change, because these same old-timers want to believe that ASA is still the leader, and never a follower.

So, we will continue to have baseball umpires working softball that think it is like baseball, or simply baseball for girls; and a rule not as simple as it could be to make everyone understand it.

Oh, and why is it an issue?? Because the same group of umpires that insists the pitcher must take the sign while on the pitcher's plate also will call a "balk" if pitcher's do anything (like drop the ball) BEFORE bringing the hands together; so the coaches TEACH taking the signal off the plate to avoid that. The new numbering system signals makes it even worse.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

It's simple enough; LL doesn't write softball rules, or even consider the intent behind softball rules. They write baseball rules, and half-a$$ adapt them for softball; and we know baseball requires signals from the rubber (yeah, baseball has a rubber, not a pitcher's plate).

As to softball, we know why ASA doesn't simplify the rule; too many old-time traditionalists that truly believe verbiage in the rulebook came down from Mt. Sinai with those stone tablets. And if another association changes their rule first, well, that's even LESS likely to get ASA to change, because these same old-timers want to believe that ASA is still the leader, and never a follower.

So, we will continue to have baseball umpires working softball that think it is like baseball, or simply baseball for girls; and a rule not as simple as it could be to make everyone understand it.

Oh, and why is it an issue?? Because the same group of umpires that insists the pitcher must take the sign while on the pitcher's plate also will call a "balk" if pitcher's do anything (like drop the ball) BEFORE bringing the hands together; so the coaches TEACH taking the signal off the plate to avoid that. The new numbering system signals makes it even worse.

And here I was trying to stay away from disparaging the LL. And I agree that there are too many "traditionalists" with a vote in ASA. However, most of these folks have no idea, nor care what the traditional rules actually were before they became a tradition

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The new numbering system signals makes it even worse.

Amen to that. IMHO, it slows the game down.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And here I was trying to stay away from disparaging the LL. And I agree that there are too many "traditionalists" with a vote in ASA. However, most of these folks have no idea, nor care what the traditional rules actually were before they became a tradition

Well, I've been trying to get past my shy stage, and start speaking my mind.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Well, I've been trying to get past my shy stage, and start speaking my mind.

Okay, I can buy that..........got a bridge in Brooklyn to go along with that?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just mandate a pause (preferably 2 seconds) with the hands apart while on the PP. I don't give hoot if she wants to read the message on the Goodyear blimp.

As I have also said for years !!!!

It seems obvious that change is needed, ASA first if they have to be, given how many times a year we discuss this on this forum, let alone on less-informed forums.

Those 3 digit numbers might be causing the pause w/o a rule.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Nothing, nothing, and nothing.

The rules say you must brush your teeth with toothpaste. They do not say you cannot also brush them with baking soda or use mouthwash.

I like that toothpaste analogy !!