Taking signs off the rubber.

[rbmartin]

Last Night. JV double header (FED rules). Game 2. 6th inning with starting pitcher still in game. Runners on 2nd & 3rd. I was at "C" position. Defensive coach (who had already proven himself to be a rat a couple of times) starts complaining (from the dugout) that the pitcher was taking signs off the rubber (not delaying or quick pitching or anything like that). He says I should call a balk. I said "coach, how do you know when he's taking his signs? Just keep quiet and lets play ball." I know 6-1-1 says "shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitchers plate" but specifies no penalty.

I'm sure this question has been discussed several times but I have a few questions:
1) Other than saying "don't do that", how should I handle the pitcher?
2) have any of you guys ever seen this infraction (if you could call it that) called?
3) What would you say to the rat/coach in the dugout?

[umpjim]

1. Leave him alone unless he's quick pitching.
2. No, uh, yes by idiots
3. Shut up. (no don't say that)

[thumpferee]

1. When I'm on the bases, I usually let my partner handle that. I tend to start paying attention to the pitcher when he toes the rubber. If there is no infraction, there's nothing to call or say.
2. No. I may have told a catcher or two to slow him down.
3. I would have called time and ran over and called him out away from prying ears and told him a a polite way, "coach, I'm not gonna listen to you from 150ft away. If you have a question for us, we have time between innings. If we see an infraction, we'll call it, OK". Then pat him on his back and run away. (maybe not)

[mbyron]

First time: "He's OK, coach." I'm not holding a rules clinic, nor arguing about interpretations. I might add a sentence of explanation if he gets off his butt and asks nicely.

Second time: "I said he's OK, coach, now that's enough."

Third time: "Coach you're restricted/ejected."

You found a coach who has a little rules knowledge. And we all know about having a little knowledge.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

Last Night. JV double header (FED rules). Game 2. 6th inning with starting pitcher still in game. Runners on 2nd & 3rd. I was at "C" position. Defensive coach (who had already proven himself to be a rat a couple of times) starts complaining (from the dugout) that the pitcher was taking signs off the rubber (not delaying or quick pitching or anything like that). He says I should call a balk. I said "coach, how do you know when he's taking his signs? Just keep quiet and lets play ball." I know 6-1-1 says "shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitchers plate" but specifies no penalty.

I'm sure this question has been discussed several times but I have a few questions:
1) Other than saying "don't do that", how should I handle the pitcher?
2) have any of you guys ever seen this infraction (if you could call it that) called?
3) What would you say to the rat/coach in the dugout?

Read the penalty section in the rule book, and it's calls for a balk to be called.

I don't agree with it because it says all pitching regulations begin when the pitcher toes the rubber at the first of the pitching rule regulations.

[mbyron]

FED 6-1-1: "He shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate."

The only penalty specified for all of article 1 is a balk/ball for an illegal pitch. Since this provision does not mention a pitch, it is not subject to that penalty. Hence, there is no penalty for this "infraction."

The purpose of the rule is to prevent quick pitches. If he's not quick pitching, he's OK. Don't pick boogers.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am only addressing NFHS Baseball Rules.

Let us review the fundamentals.

1) When is F1 an Infielder and when is F1 a Pitcher? Answer: F1 is an IF when he is not in contact with the Pitcher's Plate, and he is a Pitcher when he is intentionally in contact with the Pitcher's Plate.

2) When are the Pitching Rules in Effect? Answer: When F1 is intentionally in contact with the PPLT.

Therefore, when F1 is an IF (meaning he is not intentionally in contact with the PPLT), he can take signs from any one, any where. When F1 is the P, he shall take or simulate taking his signs from F2 while in contact with the PPLT.

The purpose NFHS R6-S1-A1 is to insure that the P does not quick pitch.

MTD, Sr.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Read the penalty section in the rule book, and it's calls for a balk to be called.

Thanks for playing.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Read the penalty section in the rule book, and it's calls for a balk to be called.

I don't agree with it because it says all pitching regulations begin when the pitcher toes the rubber at the first of the pitching rule regulations.

There is no penalty for taking signs off the rubber. I don't know what you are reading, but it is not any of the 3 baseball codes in existence today (OBR, NCAA, FED).

[jwwashburn]

I really enjoyed this thread...

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

There is no penalty for taking signs off the rubber. I don't know what you are reading, but it is not any of the 3 baseball codes in existence today (OBR, NCAA, FED).

I don't know the exact wording or section of the pitching rules, but the penalty phase, possibly 6-1-3, of the pitching rules says any violation of 6-1-
or 6-1-2, , says failure to do so results in a balk being called, blah, blah, blah.

Like I've said many times I believe it paints with too broad of a brush. I don't look for it, and I certainly have never called it. And I am talking about FED.

Feel free to argue among your selfs.

[rbmartin]

I think this thread affirms my initial opinion that if the coach was chirping at me about this he is a RAT.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I don't know the exact wording or section of the pitching rules, but the penalty phase, possibly 6-1-3, of the pitching rules says any violation of 6-1-
or 6-1-2, , says failure to do so results in a balk being called, blah, blah, blah.

Like I've said many times I believe it paints with too broad of a brush. I don't look for it, and I certainly have never called it. And I am talking about FED.

Feel free to argue among your selfs.

But Steve:

The infraction is: F1, while as the P, does NOT take his sign (or simulate taking his sign) from F2 while intenionally in contact with the Pitcher's Plate.

Read my first post in this thread about the fundementals.

MTD, Sr.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

I think this thread affirms my initial opinion that if the coach was chirping at me about this he is a RAT.

Read 6-1-3. I think that is the one that addresses the penalty phase for 6-1-1 and 6-1-2.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The purpose NFHS R6-S1-A1 is to insure that the P does not quick pitch.

That's the umpires job.