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-   -   Taking signs off the plate (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/98169-taking-signs-off-plate.html)

Rita C Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:53pm
Taking signs off the plate
 
Pitcher takes signs behind the plate. She then steps on the plate, hesitates just a moment, puts her hands together and starts her pitch.

What is your call in...?

LL

ASA

NFHS

Thank you

Rita

AtlUmpSteve Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rita C (Post 937474)
Pitcher takes signs behind the plate. She then steps on the plate, hesitates just a moment, puts her hands together and starts her pitch.

What is your call in...?

LL

ASA

NFHS

Thank you

Rita
I know nothing about Little League.

What you described is legal in ASA, NFHS, and NCAA. The momentary hesitation after stepping on the pitcher's plate and prior to bringing the hands together meets the requirement to "take or simulate taking a sign" at that point in the prepitch procedures.

MD Longhorn Wed Jul 09, 2014 08:33am
Nothing, nothing, and nothing.

The rules say you must brush your teeth with toothpaste. They do not say you cannot also brush them with baking soda or use mouthwash.

Skahtboi Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:32am
Don't do Little League, but as has already been pointed out, no infraction in ASA or NFHS. I don't care when, or from whom, they receive the actual signal. So long as after stepping on the pitching plate the hesitate (simulate taking a sign) before going into the motion. The verbiage "simulates taking a sign" is there for exactly this reason in all codes of which I am aware.

tcannizzo Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 937492)
Don't do Little League, but as has already been pointed out, no infraction in ASA or NFHS. I don't care when, or from whom, they receive the actual signal. So long as after stepping on the pitching plate the hesitate (simulate taking a sign) before going into the motion. The verbiage "simulates taking a sign" is there for exactly this reason in all codes of which I am aware.
Isn't it that they must hesitate AFTER bringing the hands together?

jmkupka Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:38am
I have it as, step on, hesitate, bring hands together (book mentions a minimum amount of time of togetherness, but the interp is that the touching alone satisfies the requirement), then begin pitch.

Dakota Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcannizzo (Post 937499)
Isn't it that they must hesitate AFTER bringing the hands together?
No. Maybe you're confusing the requirement to "take or simulate taking" the signs (i.e. hesitate) with the requirement to bring the hands together for 1 to 10 seconds. During this "1 to 10 seconds" (which, by interpretation, means touch at least briefly) the hands may be moving, so there is no hesitation requirement.

SethPDX Wed Jul 09, 2014 03:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rita C (Post 937474)
Pitcher takes signs behind the plate. She then steps on the plate, hesitates just a moment, puts her hands together and starts her pitch.

What is your call in...?

LL
Nothing, same as the others.

IRISHMAFIA Wed Jul 09, 2014 05:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcannizzo (Post 937499)
Isn't it that they must hesitate AFTER bringing the hands together?
Still hangin' on to some of the coaching brain cells, huh? :)

tcannizzo Wed Jul 09, 2014 06:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 937530)
Still hangin' on to some of the coaching brain cells, huh? :)
Nah, somehow I learned this as an umpire.
Don't know where I picked this up, although I have been more selective lately. :D

Manny A Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rita C (Post 937474)
Pitcher takes signs behind the plate. She then steps on the plate, hesitates just a moment, puts her hands together and starts her pitch.

What is your call in...?

LL
Quote:
Originally Posted by SethPDX (Post 937519)
Nothing, same as the others.
Ummm, not true. From the LL Rules Instruction Manual under the pitching rule for softball.

Quote:
8.01(e): While on the pitching plate, the pitcher shall take the signal or appear to be taking a signal with the hands separated. The ball must remain in either the glove or pitching hand.

INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS:
=> The pitcher can take signs from the manager or coach as long as she is standing on the pitcher’s plate. If not done, after warning, she can be removed from the game.
So in LL, if the pitcher takes her signs off the plate, the plate umpire is required to inform the pitcher she can't do that. Failure of the pitcher to comply with the warning can lead to her being removed not only from the pitching position, but from the game entirely.

That said, I don't know of too many umpires who would do that. More than likely they would repeat the warnings a couple of times until it sinks in.

Rita C Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:24am
Thanks all. I just wanted to verify I was explaining it correctly to others.

Rita

youngump Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 937564)
Ummm, not true. From the LL Rules Instruction Manual under the pitching rule for softball.



So in LL, if the pitcher takes her signs off the plate, the plate umpire is required to inform the pitcher she can't do that. Failure of the pitcher to comply with the warning can lead to her being removed not only from the pitching position, but from the game entirely.

That said, I don't know of too many umpires who would do that. More than likely they would repeat the warnings a couple of times until it sinks in.
The rule you quoted doesn't say that they can't take a signal off the plate. Just that they have to take or simulate taking a signal while on the plate.

Manny A Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngump (Post 937567)
The rule you quoted doesn't say that they can't take a signal off the plate.
No, but the Instructor Comment does imply it. Otherwise, what would the umpire be warning the pitcher for and then removing her from the game?

MD Longhorn Thu Jul 10, 2014 01:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 937573)
No, but the Instructor Comment does imply it. Otherwise, what would the umpire be warning the pitcher for and then removing her from the game?
For not taking signs from on the pitchers plate... not for taking them elsewhere.


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