taking signs off the rubber

[the tax man]

Sorry, beating a Dead horse but-Dixie Youth baseball wants to say that a pitcher taking signs of the rubber is a balk (with runners on). I would appreciate any rules under OBR that says that it is deceiving the runner & all thoughts on what y'all do to handle it. I disagree with the balk-am I wrong. Thanks

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by the tax man

Sorry, beating a Dead horse but-Dixie Youth baseball wants to say that a pitcher taking signs of the rubber is a balk (with runners on). I would appreciate any rules under OBR that says that it is deceiving the runner & all thoughts on what y'all do to handle it. I disagree with the balk-am I wrong. Thanks

From the J/R:

Pitchers

a) must take signs from the catcher while in contact.
b) cannot habitually disengage the rubber after taking a sign,
c) upon disengaging, must separate their hands.

No penalty is mandated or suggested for violation of (a) through (c). Such action is simply prohibited.


It's a "don't do that" if anything at all. The intent of the rule is to prevent the pitcher from quick pitching, so unless he does it's not a balk.


Tim.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by the tax man

Sorry, beating a Dead horse but-Dixie Youth baseball wants to say that a pitcher taking signs of the rubber is a balk (with runners on). I would appreciate any rules under OBR that says that it is deceiving the runner & all thoughts on what y'all do to handle it. I disagree with the balk-am I wrong. Thanks

I disagree with the balk call also, however if Dixie Youth Rules say its a balk, then its a balk.

There are many rules I don't particularly agree with, but until the time comes, when I get to write the rules, I am kind of stuck doing my job.

Consistency within your own game, and from Umpire to Umpire is something we should all strive for. But by all means, we should always follow the rules we are paid to enforce.

[Tim C]

Yes it is a dead horse however:

What is a signal?

When do you know it is being given?

(I am sure "the pope" will chime in)

As Tim has noted above: the regulation for taking a gin while on the pitcher's plate is to assure that there is no quick return pitch.

It is a "don't do that rule" no matter why it is called.

Leave it to something like Dixie to demand a ruling.

Regards,

[RPatrino]

Tee brings up a very interesting point. Signals are being flashed all over the place, the coach on the bucket, the catcher, the guys on the bench, so how do you known when and from where the pitcher gets the actual 'signal'?

From my perspective, as long as he toes the slab, and looks in to the catcher before the pitch, he's ok. Now, is he getting the signal from the catcher at that point, who knows?

[UmpJM]

If the pitcher is taking a gin while on the pitcher's plate in a game I'm working, he'd better have the common courtesy to offer one to the umpire!

JM

[RPatrino]

That explains the 16 straight pitches into the backstop and the big grin on his face...shades of Ryne Duren (sp?)

[ozzy6900]

Here's what I do when they want me to call a balk for this. I just say to them, "If you can show me in the rule book where it says that taking signs off the rubber is a balk, I will call it as such". In over 25 years, no one has been able to show me.

Regards

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Here's what I do when they want me to call a balk for this. I just say to them, "If you can show me in the rule book where it says that taking signs off the rubber is a balk, I will call it as such". In over 25 years, no one has been able to show me.

Regards

This isn't all that different than a coach wanting a balk called because F1 didn't immediately drop his hands to his sides after disengaging.


Tim.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Yes it is a dead horse however:

What is a signal?

When do you know it is being given?

Tee --

Maybe you can get clarification on this from FED (I know that doesn't apply to the OP and Dixie rules).

On a test a few years ago, FED had a question on this issue. The answer indicated that this (looking in to the catcher while not on the rubber) was to be a balk / illegal pitch in FED.

[ctblu40]

From OBR...

8.01
... Pitchers shall take signs from the catcher while standing on the rubber.
Rule 8.01 Comment: Pitchers may disengage the rubber after taking their signs but may not step quickly onto the rubber and pitch. This may be judged a quick pitch by the umpire. When the pitcher disengages the rubber, he must drop his hands to his sides.
Pitchers will not be allowed to disengage the rubber after taking each sign.

As stated in previous posts, there is no penalty except for a quick pitch, which according to 8.05 (e) is a balk with runners on base.

[waltjp]

This was posted on another forum about a week ago. You bump into this all over.


It is a balk, and all signs to the pitcher MUST come through the catcher, had this situation in Fla and ump warned me (minor league ump) that if it did not stop that it would be a balk, parent was calling pitches behind my back to his son on the mound and crossing up my catcher.


Also this, from the same thread.

In New York 2 weeks ago ump gave warning to pitcher not to take signs until on the rubber or he would call a balk. Not so uncommon. Balk was not issued without a warning and explanation to 14u.

[mbyron]

I'm glad all that bad advice never appeared in this forum. Oh wait, it did, since you quoted it.

I guess some Smitties work on the principle that if they don't like what the pitcher does, it's a balk.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Tee brings up a very interesting point. Signals are being flashed all over the place, the coach on the bucket, the catcher, the guys on the bench, so how do you known when and from where the pitcher gets the actual 'signal'?

From my perspective, as long as he toes the slab, and looks in to the catcher before the pitch, he's ok. Now, is he getting the signal from the catcher at that point, who knows?

Why does he need to look in to F2?

[RPatrino]

So that we can, if questioned, say..."It looked to me like he took a sign from the catcher", even if he didn't.