mechanics again

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I haven't been to a camp in a while, but I always thought the Out mechanic was required for all outs on the bases and all catches of fly balls, even when they are routine.

Whenever I'm the PU and I take the fly ball responsibility because my partner(s) come inside, I give a verbal (in normal voice) "Catch" and Out signal. When I chase as BU, I don't verbalize an obvious catch, but I do signal.

Are we now saying this is wrong?

In my neck of the woods:

1. We divide fair/foul and catch/no catch because it makes sense.

2. We don't come inside unless absolutely necessary.

3. We watch the ball.

4. Do not signal obvious catches any more than we would signal obvious no catches.

5. We believe that there is a close correlation between proximity to the play and correctness of the call.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

This came up because of a trapped line drive which all the players thought was caught.

ASA has a signal for a trapped ball in the signal chart from a couple of years ago (signalling safe and verbalizing "trapped ball").

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

ASA has a signal for a trapped ball in the signal chart from a couple of years ago (signalling safe and verbalizing "trapped ball").

Since ASA specifically deleted the word "trap" or "trapped" since it is either a "catch" or "no catch," I hope they removed or amended that chart to maintain consistency.

[vcblue]

I was told last year that I need to give a foul ball call even when the ball goes directly to the fence.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by vcblue

I was told last year that I need to give a foul ball call even when the ball goes directly to the fence.

While I don't doubt that that is true, that is class 101 in being an OOJ.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

While I don't doubt that that is true, that is class 101 in being an OOJ.

Really? I don't think umpires need to signal obvious foul balls but if that's how you figure out if someone is an "OOJ", I think you've missed the big picture. It's a minor stylistic thing that likely isn't noticed by anyone who doesn't umpire.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

While I don't doubt that that is true, that is class 101 in being an OOJ.

And here I thought that was reserved for people who do what they want because they obviously know better.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

While I don't doubt that that is true, that is class 101 in being an OOJ.

Wow, that's a little extreme, don'tcha think? I mean, we're talking about a subtle raising of the hands to signal a foul ball. It's no different than a subtle hammer on an obvious swing and miss, obvious fly ball catch, or an obvious putout of a runner.

Yes, if the foul signal is accompanied by a loud "FOUL!" call, I agree that's unnecessary. But a discreet signal is far from being over-officious, IMO.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Wow, that's a little extreme, don'tcha think? I mean, we're talking about a subtle raising of the hands to signal a foul ball. It's no different than a subtle hammer on an obvious swing and miss, obvious fly ball catch, or an obvious putout of a runner.

Yes, if the foul signal is accompanied by a loud "FOUL!" call, I agree that's unnecessary. But a discreet signal is far from being over-officious, IMO.

It is completely unnecessary and amateurish. I can live with the out call on the bases when the out is obvious because the defense has executed a play, a runner is advancing to a base, you do have issues such as a pulled foot or bobble, etc. But to signal every foul ball that is up in the bleachers is an absolute joke. Umpires use mechanics and signals to communicate to each other, the team members and others who are watching. When grandma sitting in the bleachers at Yankee stadium 350 feet from home plate can tell when Jeter slices one foul, how is it at all appropriate to raise your arms to signal a ripped foul ball straight back to the backstop? Sticking with WHY we have mechanics and signals, what justification is there for signaling here?

Instead of raising your hands, why not reach to the ball bag and get the catcher another ball (assuming it went out of play).

Additionally, if you are going to use a signal, it ought to be done correctly. If you are going to half-ass it because even you have determined it isn't really important, then don't do it at all.

If I have 30 out of the park foul balls in a college game and I raise my hands every time, delaying the time it takes to get the ball to the catcher by 5 seconds, I've add 2 1/2 worthless minutes onto the game. I've likely also irritated the catcher who has her hand out waiting. That's poor game management.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Wow, that's a little extreme, don'tcha think? I mean, we're talking about a subtle raising of the hands to signal a foul ball. It's no different than a subtle hammer on an obvious swing and miss, obvious fly ball catch, or an obvious putout of a runner.

Yes, if the foul signal is accompanied by a loud "FOUL!" call, I agree that's unnecessary. But a discreet signal is far from being over-officious, IMO.

And in case you missed my point, I DON'T want umpires to signal obvious fly balls. That's what lead to this discussion. Rather than pointing fair/foul on balls near the line that are touched by the defender and possibly dropped (a mechanic that is extremely useful and my save your ass some day) most associations want umpires to give worthless signals on obvious fly balls. That is amateurish. I feel stupid when in an NCAA game where I do what I am told I stick my arm up to signal a fly ball caught by the 2nd baseman. Do I really need to signal an out on a line shot back to the pitcher where she immediately fires to 1st for the double play on R1? Really? Who the hell is watching? Who cares? Who needs that communicated?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

And in case you missed my point, I DON'T want umpires to signal obvious fly balls. That's what lead to this discussion. Rather than pointing fair/foul on balls near the line that are touched by the defender and possibly dropped (a mechanic that is extremely useful and my save your ass some day) most associations want umpires to give worthless signals on obvious fly balls. That is amateurish. I feel stupid when in an NCAA game where I do what I am told I stick my arm up to signal a fly ball caught by the 2nd baseman. Do I really need to signal an out on a line shot back to the pitcher where she immediately fires to 1st for the double play on R1? Really? Who the hell is watching? Who cares? Who needs that communicated?

You keep bringing up NCAA and pro baseball. Do what you want at that level. I merely pointed out that in ASA, as instructed at the 18 GOLD Championship last year, we were told by NUS that we signal all foul balls. Unnecessary, perhaps. OOJ? Far from it.

[MDUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

It is completely unnecessary and amateurish. I can live with the out call on the bases when the out is obvious because the defense has executed a play, a runner is advancing to a base, you do have issues such as a pulled foot or bobble, etc. But to signal every foul ball that is up in the bleachers is an absolute joke. Umpires use mechanics and signals to communicate to each other, the team members and others who are watching. When grandma sitting in the bleachers at Yankee stadium 350 feet from home plate can tell when Jeter slices one foul, how is it at all appropriate to raise your arms to signal a ripped foul ball straight back to the backstop? Sticking with WHY we have mechanics and signals, what justification is there for signaling here?

Instead of raising your hands, why not reach to the ball bag and get the catcher another ball (assuming it went out of play).

Additionally, if you are going to use a signal, it ought to be done correctly. If you are going to half-ass it because even you have determined it isn't really important, then don't do it at all.

If I have 30 out of the park foul balls in a college game and I raise my hands every time, delaying the time it takes to get the ball to the catcher by 5 seconds, I've add 2 1/2 worthless minutes onto the game. I've likely also irritated the catcher who has her hand out waiting. That's poor game management.

Why signal a strike on a swing and miss caught by the catcher? Why not adjust your cup so the pitcher doesn't have to wait on you before making the next pitch?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I was instructed to signal safe on any no-catch of an uncaught batted fly ball; although using the fair signal for those near the line.

This came up because of a trapped line drive which all the players thought was caught.

Opinions, confirmations, corrections ???

I think the consensus is that this is correct.
Thanks to those who responded.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by MDUmp

Why signal a strike on a swing and miss caught by the catcher? Why not adjust your cup so the pitcher doesn't have to wait on you before making the next pitch?

Your timing comparison is illogical and inaccurate. By your watch, every pitch would be a quick pitch. Keep trying though.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I think the consensus is that this is correct.
Thanks to those who responded.

Who is teaching that? Signal every uncaught fly ball? Shall we do that on grounders in the infield too?