Thoughts on a Look-Back Rule case

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What intent would that be

To create 10,000 complaints a season by coaches!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I have always said the LBR is not a "gotcha" rule...

+1

Same for its conjoined twin... the leaving early rule.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

That being said (Cecil's and Agr8's comments), my situation this weekend was, me in "C", R1 on 2B, her ready position had her rear foot on the bag.
In order to get a look at F2's signal, R1 leaned forward, bringing her rear foot waaay up off the bag, then back down. No early lead, no toying with F1.

What say you in that sit?

10U? Inform the coach that she can't do that.

Anything else, that's an out. They know better by then.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Anything else, that's an out. They know better by then.

"off the bag, then back down. No early lead, no toying with F1."
I disagree, but that's probably obvious.

[IRISHMAFIA]

IMO, there is no "leading" in softball.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

That being said (Cecil's and Agr8's comments), my situation this weekend was, me in "C", R1 on 2B, her ready position had her rear foot on the bag.
In order to get a look at F2's signal, R1 leaned forward, bringing her rear foot waaay up off the bag, then back down. No early lead, no toying with F1.

What say you in that sit?

Easy, I've got an OUT.
What was your call?

[jmkupka]

By lead, of course I meant "no early leaving of the base to advance to 3B"

KJ, I made no call. Afterwards, that felt incorrect (hence the post).
As seen in this thread, I am able to rationalize, if not justify, my no-call.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

"off the bag, then back down. No early lead, no toying with F1."
I disagree, but that's probably obvious.

How are you going to justify this no call when the coach comes out? I get not calling a player shuffling their feet. But stepping WAY off the base to look in - this is an elephant call you can't fail to make.

[jmkupka]

Absolutely right MD,

actually, the base foot went way up, not forward, and went straight back down. But, yes the front foot was indeed stretched 2+ feet toward 3B.

I'm sure it would have been just as illegal if she used the "front foot on the base" stance, then leaned back to see the signal, bringing the front foot up off the bag.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

How are you going to justify this no call when the coach comes out? I get not calling a player shuffling their feet. But stepping WAY off the base to look in - this is an elephant call you can't fail to make.

"foot went way up, not forward" That would fall under "gotcha".

And I try not to make calls based on what a coach thinks or just to avoid debate. If needed, I would explain to the coach that it is not the purpose or interpretation of the rule; then count him/her as a lost vote.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

IMO, there is no "leading" in softball.

I guess it is time for my list of words that mean different things in games than the dictionary.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

And I try not to make calls based on what a coach thinks or just to avoid debate.

Ok, I agree with that.

So what do you say when the coach PROTESTS after you describe what you saw and why you then ruled what you did anyway.

The rule gives us leeway in most "gotcha!" cases in that we alone determine what "immediately" means. There's no leeway on this one though.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Ok, I agree with that.

So what do you say when the coach PROTESTS after you describe what you saw and why you then ruled what you did anyway.

The rule gives us leeway in most "gotcha!" cases in that we alone determine what "immediately" means. There's no leeway on this one though.

I've made this point before to a chilly reception. But here's how I see it: If the pitcher was ready to pitch then this is a leaving early situation and that rule states that the player must maintain contact with the base. Get the out.

If the pitcher was not ready to pitch then this is a lookback rule situation. The player did not "leave" the base if her foot was straight above it, she just didn't maintain contact with it. Do not call her out.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by youngump

The player did not "leave" the base if her foot was straight above it....

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Yeah, that was about the reaction before. Everybody else thinks they are ignoring a rule when they don't call a runner out for cleaning her cleats. I think it's the way the rule should be interpreted.
If leave means to lose contact with (as most everyone here thinks it does) then there is no way to avoid calling this out. I just don't see how that's a natural reading and the consequences of it don't make the game better.